The Twilight books show a higher sense of maturity. (larger words, more adult themes. And by adult, I don't mean sexual)

You can't really say that is because Harry Potter is more kid friendly because HP has a lot more death and adults killing children... Voldemort trying to kill a baby...

Stephenie Meyer tried something new and risky. She wasn't afraid to venture away from the path most vampire novelists take. She did something different from what most people consider a "real vampire" to be.

(It's not against any rule to change what a vampire is because first of all, it's a fiction. Second of all, vampires are not real. You can do whatever you want with them, as long as you stay with the main theme, as Meyer did)

Actually, I write A LOT, and really the only way it's hard to write about certain situations and characters is if you're not close to them. A good writer can write anything, as long as they know their characters and they have something in common with them. Like some people say, it's harder to write about stuff you don't know then stuff that you do. So if you're hiding something, yet you're open to people it'll be easy to write about...same thing with the sharing the same same unique characteristics
EDIT: In response to cassie's post under this one,
JKR probably has surrounded herself with friends who are like her, so yah, maybe she doesn't experience that much diversity
And yah, SM is hiding something...the fact that her books not only came from a "dream", but a wet dream, and she probably has to keep her peverted side in check around her family and fans. I mean, that's what it seems like

So I suppose Rowling lives with a bunch of people like herself and doesn't experience much diversity?

And Stephenie lives with a bunch of people unlike herself and has to keep who she really is from those surrounding her?

Does that make Stephenie a more complex person?

Hmm... I have a reason:

Reason X (Since I don't know which number we're on): Stephenie's vampires are original. How did Rowling's wizards differ from original wizards? She just invented a couple more spells, filled in a few blanks, etc., but the basic wizard and HP wizards are the same.

Rowling has invented a few magical creatures on her own, like the dementor, but redcaps, hippogriffs, dragons, mermaids... they all already exist.

Meyer's vampires, in my opinion, are much more interesting. Instead of the boring burn-in-sunlight vamps which were already done by Bram Stoker, Anne Rice, Joss Whedon, L.J. Smith, and many other writers, she created her own vampires, who sparkle in the sunlight.

And I agree with Cassie-1-2-3, Twilight is much more mature. Harry didn't get pregnant and raise a child in the Harry Potter books, did he?

Reason XX: Twilight has better fanfiction in general. Or so my FF writer friend says.

My friend (let's call her C) says that Harry Potter fics are unoriginal and tacky, and the whole archive was basically crack pairing lemons, and angsty fics that made you want to tear your hair out because it was so pathetic.

C states that Twilight fanfiction is brilliant, where people can just pick up one of the minor characters like Mike or Seth, and invent a story about them without any prohibitions. You see, C has a theory that Meyer didn't give much information on the minor characters so young aspiring writers could have a crack at them before coming up with ther original ideas.

I agree with these new points. They are logical and are very valid.

Why, thank you.

I was not talking about your point. I meant Cassie-1-2-3 and Gemonkus points.

^^*Dies laughing*

Cassie-1-2-3, could you give examples with your reasons please? Your reasons don't count if you can't prove it.
"Twilight was probably more difficult to write because of the location and surroundings of the main characters."
I write too, and I find that it's more difficult to write about an imaginary castle than a forest in Washington.
"Twilight was probably more difficult to write because of the location and surroundings of the main characters."
The people in Harry Potter have to hide who they are from the Muggles. It says in Prisoner Of Askaban that Hogsmeade is the only all-magic community in all of England; that means that in most of the wizard communities the Witches and Wizards have to hide who they are.
"From a persom who writes a bit, I know it's a lot easier to write about a bunch of people who share the same unique characteristics than it is to write about people being themselves, yet hiding themselves at the same time."
What do you mean by that? All of the Cullens are vampires.
"You can't really say that is because Harry Potter is more kid friendly because HP has a lot more death and adults killing children... Voldemort trying to kill a baby..."
What about the Volturi trying to kill Renesmee? Give an example of a non-sexual adult theme in Twilight. The Harry Potter series was originally a children's series; that's why it can appeal to more age groups than the Twilight series.
"Stephenie Meyer tried something new and risky. She wasn't afraid to venture away from the path most vampire novelists take. She did something different from what most people consider a "real vampire" to be."
Yeah, and she killed it.

But thanks for trying!

You're ignoring the parts of my posts you don't want to listen too...

I'm aware that they hide from muggles, but they spent most of the time in the school surrounded by their own kind, as I said. Most of the time, they didn't have to hide who they are.

I am also aware that the Cullens are vampires... They are a family of vampires that live with humans, whom of which they hide their vampire selves from, as I also said.

I said they hide from everyone but themselves. Themselves being the Cullens.

About them trying to kill Remesme...

True, but nobody claimed Twilight to be a childrens' book.

^ Yes, but the thing is, it's difficult to make Hogwarts and the wizards seem real. She can make them up, but to make it feel like their normal people in normal surroundings is hard. I write myself and I love writing fantasy and I know it's terribly hard to try and make the magical area seem normal and relate to real life somehow so people don't get uninterested. "Hiding" from someone, I feel, is common. Us tweens hide from our crushes, the shy ones are hiding their outgoing personality, etc .. so it doesn't seem like a difficult concept.

You cannot kill a myth. Mythes are not real so there is no right or wrong. She did stay with the general theme (vampires drink blood and don't go in the sun). and that's all that is really necessary.

I understand what your trying to say, Cassie, but it's equally haard to make a magical place full of magical people, things, animals etc .. and make it seem like home, like you've known this place forever. She did make people with the same characteristics (magic), but your forgetting that us readers don't have magic, yet she made it easy for us to relate to them. As a writer myself, I find it very difficult to do that.
The hiding thing - I feel is pretty easy since so many people do that. By hiding, I'm not saying people are hiding their vampire abilities, but so many tweens hide who they really are because they're afraid of what everyone might think. I think everyone has gone through that phase, so it's a bit easier to write about people hiding who they really are.

The rest of your points, I will adress later when I have the books in my hands and I can use quotes.

You cannot kill a myth. Mythes are not real so there is no right or wrong. She did stay with the general theme (vampires drink blood and don't go in the sun). and that's all that is really necessary.

Myths are kind of like history in the fantasy genre. The vampire legend started in the 1800s and they were seductive, frightening, blood-sucking demons. You could say Stephenie used creativity, but she angered so many vampire fans who didn't see them as sparkly, loving creatures.

I find it a lot easier to create a world from scratch than it is to fit something mythical into a regular place.

When creating a world from scratch, when something along the linedoesn't match up, just change the environment so everything's fixed.

When something doesn't match up in a normal, human location, you have to actually chance the characters and what they do to fix the situation.


In a real place, earch is the constant. In some made up magical place, there is no constant. You can change whatever you want.

^ Yes, but to have people relate and connect to those mythical places is hard. To make elves, dwarves, wizards, etc ... feel like normal beings and to actually want to become friends with them, I find, is hard.

Also, Stephenie DID change the location to fit, not her characters. She changed the driving range, the REAL Indian tribes' history and also weather in a way (i.e sun not going through clouds.)

Cassie is right on all of her points. I agree with her and for her points I can find examples in the Twilight series to back up her points. I can also find examples examples in the Twilight series to discredit some of your claims. for Instance, You seem to think that all of the Vampires in twlight are loving creatures. well you are wrong. The Volturi and the Nomads are not Loving Vampires. The Volturi wanted to kill Bella because she knew too much about their world. The Nomads also wanted to kill Bella for her blood. Victoria who is also a nomad wanted Bella dead because Edward killed her mate James.

^ No one is 'right.' Just because she's supporting your side, does not mean she's right. Nor am I right. They are all opinions. And please do find examples.

For one of the points that Cassie metioned, The cullens did hide who they were for a long time, but Edward accidently revealed their secret to Bella when he saved her from getting crushed by the van. Then when Bella met the rest of the Cullens, the Cullens actually did not have to hide from her. The wolf pack also knew about who the Cullens were. The Cullens did not have to hide who they were from the wolf pack.

^ I don't understand your point.

I am not making a point. I am just backing up Cassie`s point with examples.

Cassie said they have to hide themselves, but you said they don't in front of the werewolves and Bella. You went against her point?

What Cassie meant was that they hide from the Humans that are not Bella.

I know that?

I am not going against Cassies point.

But... But... Okay, you know what? I give up. Like my dad says: "You can't fill a glass that's already full."
Cassie, I would like to know what important parts of your posts that I ignored. Hsmgirl14a, saying that the Cullens didn't hide themselves from the wolf pack WAS contradicting Cassie. All I'm asking for is ONE VALID REASON. God.

I'm going to go ahead and get into some of the Mature, Unsexual themes of Twilight the best way I can without having the books with me.

Note, some of these themes do apply to Harry Potter as well.

I think the most obvious theme is alienation.

Bella is alienated right from the beginning. She moves to Forks, away from her mother, whome of which she claims to have a strong bond with, and away from any friends she had. (I can't remember if she ever mentioned and old friends, so it's very possible she didn't have any) She was alienated from Edward and Alice (her two best friends) when they left. She was alienated by Jacob when he was going through his changes. She alienated herself when when she was feeling miserable. Her self imposed isolation made it difficult to jump back into things, even when she wanted to.

(part two is on it's way)

Charlie lived alone for many years.

Edward was somewhat alienated from the Cullens in a sense that he didn't have a partner and he holds so much guilt for being who he is.

Vampires in general don't usually socialize much with humans. They stay within their own community within a much larger community.

The indian tribe (I can't remember their tribe name right now) is a little community with boundries separating them from the rest of Forks.

Harry was alone in the beginning, but he was wisked away to a place filled with people just like him soon enough. He even made a friend right away.

(Children deal with alienation, but it's usually not as severe as it is for an adult)

Flaws: It is very mature to accept others and all their flaws. (I'm unsure about this in Harry Potter. As far as I see, those characters only have physical flaws)

The charaters of Twilight have flaws. Some say this is a bad thing, but I feel it's the way stories should be. Edward is presented to be absolutely perfect in every way, but this is because the story is told by Bella's pov and she's crazy about him. (when it switched over to Jacob's pov, Edward looked like a huge jerk.), but Edward tried to show #ella his flaws.

(part two comming soon)

Edward's flaw was that he took too much advantage of his own powers to force Bella to do what he wanted. also, being a little too selfless. Bella's flaw was being naive and blind to everything not Edward. They were both blinde to each other's flaws.

They both also make some bad decisions (my next point). All of these flaws cause the characters to be more like real people. Real people make mistakes.

Life changing choices: First off, Bella made the choice to move to Forks. Moving somewhere new is always a big deal. She also made more literal life changing decisions when she decided to become immortal, despite the numerous warnings she recieved from various people.

Edward made more melodramatic choices. He chose to stay away from Bella in the beginning, then the choice to be with her, then he chose to leave her. All this teeter tottering was getting them nowhere, so he made the most effective choice to go along with Bella and do whatever she wanted to be done.

Edward also made a very importand decision to share close to no intimacies. (too many people don't see this as a big deal, but I think Twilight does a good thing here) As soon as they decide to engage in intercourse (without contraception) both of their lives change because Bella gets pregnant.

Not all of these decisions were necessarily smart ones, but real people make bad decisions and they have to live with them, just as what happens in Twilight.

Obsession. Many refer to this as "stalking" or "being creepy":
I've experianced this and it is a very strong, adult feeling.

Both Edward and Bella because the centers of each other's worlds. They are both driven to each other by a very strong desire difficult for others to understand. It's a very complex emotion. Many readers don't even understand. Their relationship is not driven by common mutual interests, as most are.

(part two comming soon)

Both James and Victoria were obsessed with killing Bella. James because he was a tracker and that's what he had to do. Victoria because it was vengence.

Imprinting by the wolves is another form of obsession.

Actually, hsmgirl, you shall find that Gemonkus is actually me.

twilite is so much better because it desals with morei moportant things lyke love herry duz not luve any1 so dats why!1 n bella dels wyth more important things lyke her tru luv but jerry haz 2 tink of stupyd stuffff lyke dat ugley baldye! i myn, ew he shuld nut b on da moviez cuz he iz nawt hawt1 wat were da dirctrs tinking

Who's Jerry?
And Baldye?

Umm... Jerry is Harry, and Baldye is Voldy.

Harry Potter and too hard to read don't even go in the same story, let alone a sentence!What are these, reasons for liking twilight or excuses for Twilight and complaints for Harry Potter.

“Bella is alienated right from the beginning. She moves to Forks, away from her mother, whome of which she claims to have a strong bond with, and away from any friends she had. (I can't remember if she ever mentioned and old friends, so it's very possible she didn't have any) She was alienated from Edward and Alice (her two best friends) when they left. She was alienated by Jacob when he was going through his changes. She alienated herself when when she was feeling miserable. Her self imposed isolation made it difficult to jump back into things, even when she wanted to.”
Okay, yeah, she moved. And what happened at her new school? I’ll tell you: Everyone loved her. She immediately gets about ten friends, all the guys’ lover her, she gets the ‘hottest’ guy in the school, and there are only about two people who dislike her. However when HARRY first went to Hogwarts, he only had about two friends, he had to deal with mutterings, gossip, prejudice, and hate; whereas Bella’s life was, more or less, perfect.

“Charlie lived alone for many years.
Edward was somewhat alienated from the Cullens in a sense that he didn't have a partner and he holds so much guilt for being who he is.
Vampires in general don't usually socialize much with humans. They stay within their own community within a much larger community.
The indian tribe (I can't remember their tribe name right now) is a little community with boundries separating them from the rest of Forks.
Harry was alone in the beginning, but he was wisked away to a place filled with people just like him soon enough. He even made a friend right away.
(Children deal with alienation, but it's usually not as severe as it is for an adult)”
See above.

“Flaws: It is very mature to accept others and all their flaws. (I'm unsure about this in Harry Potter. As far as I see, those characters only have physical flaws)
The charaters of Twilight have flaws. Some say this is a bad thing, but I feel it's the way stories should be. Edward is presented to be absolutely perfect in every way, but this is because the story is told by Bella's pov and she's crazy about him. (when it switched over to Jacob's pov, Edward looked like a huge jerk.), but Edward tried to show #ella his flaws.”
Ron is jealous. It says many times in the series that Ron is really jealous of Harrys fame, and that leads to a lot of resentful feelings towards him. Harry has a “saving people thing” where he is incredibly gullible in matters concerning his friends and family. He also gets very troubled and upset in OOTP when he thinks that Voldemort may be controlling him. I could go into all of the flaws of all of the characters, but I’m just leaving it there because I don’t have all day.

“Edward's flaw was that he took too much advantage of his own powers to force Bella to do what he wanted. also, being a little too selfless. Bella's flaw was being naive and blind to everything not Edward. They were both blinde to each other's flaws.”
*Facepalm* Okay, being ‘a little too selfless’ doesn’t count as a flaw. That’s like lsaying that he’s ‘a little too perfect.’ The difference between the flaws in HP and the flaws in Twilight is that the flaws in HP give the characters depth, while the flaws in Twilight just make them ‘better’.

“Life changing choices: First off, Bella made the choice to move to Forks. Moving somewhere new is always a big deal. She also made more literal life changing decisions when she decided to become immortal, despite the numerous warnings she recieved from various people.
Edward made more melodramatic choices. He chose to stay away from Bella in the beginning, then the choice to be with her, then he chose to leave her. All this teeter tottering was getting them nowhere, so he made the most effective choice to go along with Bella and do whatever she wanted to be done.”
Life changing choices: Harry chooses to give up his muggle life with the Dursleys and go to Hogwarts to learn magic. Edward IS melodramatic, you just said it. That’s why we hate him.

“Edward also made a very importand decision to share close to no intimacies. (too many people don't see this as a big deal, but I think Twilight does a good thing here) As soon as they decide to engage in intercourse (without contraception) both of their lives change because Bella gets pregnant.
Not all of these decisions were necessarily smart ones, but real people make bad decisions and they have to live with them, just as what happens in Twilight.”
I thought you said that these were the non-sexual mature themes, but whatever. Yes. Edward agreed to have sex with Bella even though there was NO POSSIBLE WAY she could survive. But (of course) she did anyway. And Bella DID get pregnant. With a demon-baby. Reason number 1,826,494,472 why we hate Twilight. Edward being DEAD he would be unable to produce sperm, therefore Renesmee could not have existed. BOTH PARENTS have to be alive to make a baby. Wait… Are you saying that Harry doesn’t make bad decisions? Because trust me, he does. In OOTP, Harry goes to the Department of mysteries to save Sirius, who turned out not to be there. Harry’s drive to protect people caused him to get his godfather killed in the attempt to rescue him. Does Edward ever do that?

“Obsession. Many refer to this as "stalking" or "being creepy":
I've experianced this and it is a very strong, adult feeling.
Both Edward and Bella because the centers of each other's worlds. They are both driven to each other by a very strong desire difficult for others to understand. It's a very complex emotion. Many readers don't even understand. Their relationship is not driven by common mutual interests, as most are.”
*Explodes with disbelief that someone is actually using this as an argument* NO. JUST NO. You’re right, their relationship isn’t driven my common interests, it’s driven by lust. That ‘Strong desire’ is LUST. Definition: intense sexual desire or appetite.
uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually fol.by for ): a lust for power.
ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.
Obsolete .
pleasure or delight.
desire; inclination; wish.
There you go. Edward and Bella right there.

You know, us HP fans are just repeating the same arguments over and over again.

The rudeness is a little bit annoying, but whatever. It's still laughable.

being around people doens't mean you're not alone... Alienation is am emotional state, not a physical.

I didn't use sex as a theme. I used as only one example under the theme of choice.

I really don't think it was all lust between them. they just wanted to be near eachother.

Being too selfless is never a good thing. Putting absolutely everything so far ahead of yourself is damaging to yourself and all who care about you.

You say people hate Edward for being melodramatic. Perhaps people hate Ron for being jealous all the time.

I didn't say Harry never made any bad decisions. I dodn't say anything about Harry there.

GemonkDruid sorry I did not know that

Alienation can be both an emotional state and a physical state. Physical alienation can cause someone to alienate themselves. Would you like me to give some examples of only emotional alienation? Because there's even more examples of emotional alienation in HP than physical. For example, using one of the things that I said in a different argument, in OOTP Harry felt completely alienated because of the connection between him and Voldemort. He thought that because of his dreams, Harry was causing harm to his friends, and that completely messed him up.

What?

Listen, I'm not going to argue about whether or not what they had was lust. If you still can't see it, nothing that I'm going to say will convince you, so I'll just drop that subject.

Hmmm... I see your point on that, but I still disagree. Saying that someone is 'too selfless' is taking something good and turning it into a flaw, which doesn't count in my opinion.

Melodramatic is different than jealous. Jealousy is an emotion that everyone has at some point, and it gives the character more depth, while Melodramatic-ness is just... annoying.

"Not all of these decisions were necessarily smart ones, but real people make bad decisions and they have to live with them, just as what happens in Twilight." You're saying that people made bad decisions in Twilight, I was saying that people made bad decisions in Harry Potter, therefore making your argument useless unless you meant something else.

And I'm sorry that it sounded like I was being rude, I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I've been told that I get kind of rude when debating.

@Cassie1-2-3 I'm a Twilight fan and I disagree with you.

^^ Sweetheart, im human and i diagree with her

LovesEddyx: Your spelling is quite atrocious. I'll translate it to something that people can read without being confused.

"Twilight is so much better because it deals with more important things like love, Harry does not love anyone so that's why!"

You mean teenage lust, don't you? Harry does love people, Bella doesn't love Edward, she loves Edward's body. And Twilight mainly deals with Bella's obsession with Edward, how is that important? It's not Bella's behavior is flat, obsessive, and hardly something normal people would find important.

And Bella deals with more important things like her true love, but Jerry has to think of stupid stuff like that ugly Baldy!

Bella deals with her obsessive boyfriend and his family, which is a problem that, if she were smart enough, could easily get out of by breaking up with him. And his name is Harry, not Jerry. Harry has to deal with Voldemort because he's trying to kill Harry. What if someone was trying to kill you? That'd be a pretty huge deal if you ask me.

I mean, ew he should not be on the movie because he is not hot. What were the directors thinking."

Seriously, you must be really shallow. He's a villain, honey, he was described as ugly in the book and the directors aren't going to change the way he's supposed to look just to float your looks-oriented boat!

Face it, Harry Potter is better than Twilight. And when you're trying to prove that wrong, use legitimate, relevant reasons, not shallow, senseless ones.

Loveseddyx is just some dummy account someone created to make a whole group of people look stupid.