debate Pergunta

Where do you draw the line between respecting gender / sexuality identities and saying they're ridiculous?

i.e. I'm nonbinary, and that's obv pretty legit in my eyes. People don't have to operate within a gender binary. But what about, say, otherkin, people who identify as not fully human? I really don't believe in otherkin because unlike the gender binary we aren't on a spectrum of human to sobrenatural or whatever. But on the flip side people use the same arguments against trans/nb folks as I've used against otherkin, like saying "you're genetically female/human so you're a girl/human." My friends have called me out for not "believing" in otherkin. What are your thoughts?

The same kind of goes for sexuality, like where's the line between respecting kinks and saying something is wrong? What do you think about people who are sexually or romantically attracted to objects, for instance?

tamore posted over a year ago

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debate Respostas

Cinders said:

Truth is subjective. People disagree with me on this frequently. "It can't be," they say. "Truth is objective fact, it just is." That may be true of certain physical and stationary things in life. Objective truths exist, to be sure. I never said there isn't.

But personal truth, that is entirely subjective. The Wiccans say, An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will and while I am not Wiccan, I do feel those are good words to live by.

I don't care how others identify. They can believe in past lives, or an after life, or a Savior, or polytheism, or animal spirits. They can choose to label their sexuality, or they can not. Because they are what they claim because they believe that they are, whatever that is. It's their subjective truth because it's true to them. It doesn't have to be true to me. I respect that, I take it at face value, and I believe that they believe it. It's the best I can do.

So to answer the question, I never call anything ridiculous, for that is also subjective. I knew a Shinto Catholic lesbian who had a passion for J.R.R. Tolkein and (when she was younger) believed hobbits were real. It made no sense to me, but it didn't have to. It made sense to her, and that's all that matters.

The world is already full of skepticism, cynicism, and objective truth. No need to add any mais into it, in my opinion.

posted over a year ago

Gotcha, I like this answer a lot. Thanks man

tamore posted over a year ago

zanhar1 said:

I believe in most but I think otherkin is a bit of a stretch. Likewise the ones who think they're like gatos born as humans. I'm not gonna throw hate around or judge but I really don't get it.

Edit: After leitura the other comments I can definitely see it much better. I personally don't believe in reincarnation but I understand why some people do. I think my misunderstanding had lie in the fact that I thought it was like a gender of some sort which didn't make sense to me. However I can see someone believing that they have the soul of an animal living with in them. As said in the respostas below, some of the beliefs are a bit of a stretch to me, but I still hold my 'to each their own' mentality. If it doesn't hurt anyone then it isn't a problem. And again (as stated in one of the below answers) it may not make sense to me but if it makes sense to them then that's what counts.

I myself hold some 'odd' beliefs that some people would probably pergunta me for. So I really can't place judgement on otherkins.

posted over a year ago

Right, I just feel like I need a way to think it through logically lmao

tamore posted over a year ago

Same, like I can see trans and nobinary and stuff. I guess I can sort of see otherkin to an extent (like the ones who think they are witches) because I do believe in magic and psychics and such but when they start going 'I'm really a dragon/mermaid/griffin' I'm a bit thrown off. Like witches, elves, and fadas I can see. But getting into the vampire/werewolf territory (as I don't believe those exist period) I start to question. It's one thing to say you are a male of female (as males and females obviously exist) but another to say that you're a being that is of only fantasia if that makes sense.

zanhar1 posted over a year ago

Hiding 6 comments... click to show.

yeah, we're humans, genetically, biologically and psychologically. males and females on the other hand are part of the same species and their traits are scientitifally proven to be fluid. masculinity and femininity is made up of several different psychological and biological traits that can either land someone in the mais feminine class, the mais masculine class or somewhere in between and of course affect their sexuality. this is not a problem though as it is uncommon, most human beings are (for the most part) leaning mais toward being heterosexual and gender normative. a few people like me exist and that's fine. however, i do not think any of these people who claim to be animais on the inside would actually prefer to be the animal. ie. the ability to put yourself into another species shoes, anthropomorphising, role playing and developed imaginations are all human traits and they are beautiful and lovely traits and im glad people out there feel the inner animal inside of them, it just somehow dampens me, the notion that they would try to put themselves into a transgender person's shoes. we are suffering because of physical and biological inhibitions. there are serious emotional scars that can develop and the suicide rate for transgender individuals is very high. yes, people should be free to be an animal or anything they want to be, self expression is very important, but just, sometimes i feel, personally, just my opinion, that people try to make themselves into victims or whatever, especialy in places like tumblr and stuff because they think it's "cool". no, we have to be serious and focus on serious issues and yes, be free to express ourselves.

coriann posted over a year ago

not just people who want to express themselves as animals! not just them, there are a whole range of people that, yes society does prevent them from expressing themselves. in fact, i think society prevents everyone from expressing themselves. but, i think that when we create all these different classes of victims we distract from the real issues facing the lgbt community. so, self expression, gender expression, lgbt community, that should cover everything, i don't believe we should have to get into the nitty gritty of all these different people trying to find new names and new classifications and new ways to group and identify themselves. idenfity with yourself however you want but just know that it's way mais complicated than that!

coriann posted over a year ago

Tumblr social justice is a joke. It makes the groups they 'support' seem foolish. I have been called 'trash' and 'scum' over the stupidest things on tumblr I just can't. They give the groups they support a bad name. On topo, início of that they make serious stuff look like a joke. I feel like a good number of them make up their own genders for attention and like you said to victimize themselves because 'it's cool'. It's like no, stop, this is a serious issue and if you're just making crap up for attention gtfo and stop making the rest of your community look silly.

zanhar1 posted over a year ago

aleatório sidenote: witches aren't other kin. Witchcraft is a practice, and witch is the título of those who practice it.

bri-marie posted over a year ago

That's true. Witchcraft and Wicca. I guess that's probably why I can see it, it's a religion. Whereas (as far as I know) there is not religion that practices vampireism. I mean I'm sure there are some people who do that but I feel like that's different than Witchcraft & Wicca which have been practiced for a long time if that makes sense.

zanhar1 posted over a year ago

Not really. I'm not really seeing where you're drawing a line between "new" and "old." Wicca has only been around since the 50s. And new religions are being born every dia (just a fun fact: there actually IS a religion based around vampirism, although, from what I understand, it's closer to vampire subculture than the vampiros in books). Technically speaking, cristianismo is fairly new, in comparison to many other religions (Judaism, most other Pagan religions, Hinduim, Buddhism, ect). New (when it comes to religion, sexuality, and gender) doesn't mean less legit, or mais far fetched.

bri-marie posted over a year ago

To be honest I really don't know how to put what I'm think into words; like I have the thought formed in my head but I can't figure out how to explain it. Perhaps it's centered on my beliefs; like I believe that witches are real and that people can practice magic (or something like it) but I don't believe in vampires. Like the closer it is to something you read in a fantasia novel the mais far-fetched it seems to me personally. Is Cullenism the vampire religion you have in mind? All that said I don't think otherkin is less legit, if it's real to the person then that's what matters, it doesn't hurt me. I guess what I'm trying to say is; por far-fetched I mean harder for me to embrulho, envoltório my head around. I won't dismiss it as 'not real' though.

zanhar1 posted over a year ago

bri-marie said:

Otherkin don't have anything to do with gender or sexuality (link is a nifty chart made por otherkin to help you). While there is a lot of overlap between the two (what you feel on the inside doesn't match the outside) they aren't the same. Otherkin falls very heavily into reincarnation, and that idea has been around too long (and found in too many cultures) for me to just dismiss it outright.

As for where I draw the line -- so long as the ID doesn't harm anyone, and everything done is consensual, I really don't give it much thought.

Edit: added link

posted over a year ago

See that makes mais sense now. Like that actually really did help a lot.

zanhar1 posted over a year ago

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direitos dos animais	estados unidos	Keep Earth Green
Gay Rights	Barack Obama	Human Rights
lgbt	Martin Luther King Jr	Washington, DC

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debate Pergunta

Where do you draw the line between respecting gender / sexuality identities and saying they're ridiculous?

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