Bangel vs Spuffy pergunta for all Bangel or Spuffy fans...

mandapanda posted on Apr 25, 2008 at 10:21PM
Why do you think/blame Angel for "lusting" after a 16 year old girl, when Buffy was the one that wanted it to happen?

Bangel vs Spuffy 13 replies

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over a year ago ArabellaElfie said…
Personally I don't blame either of them for it. I believe Joss said that the age wasn't relevant. I don't like to think of it as lust, though I am not a true believer in the love at first sight theory even though it is romantic. I like to believe that it was an attraction that developed into something else and the sex was the next step. I do however find myself a Spuffy fan because of the depth of the relationship. Bangel just felt flat to me following the development of Spuffy and Cangel.
over a year ago mandapanda said…
well, what about when spike said the first time he touched her and i think saw her, he loved her. i think that wasn't love at first side either...
personally, the love at first sight thing is a little dramatic... sorry if i offend anyone with that comment...
over a year ago nosemuffin said…
I don't believe in love at first sight either, but lust is totally reasonable. It was lust on both of their parts in my opinion. With Angel it grew into love. With Spike it grew into irritation, then obsession, then love. Like Arabella said, Spuffy just had more depth.
over a year ago Joker said…
See I understand where you're going with the depth and all that, Bangel just kind of happens in S1, but I still won't have it because I can't believe in it.

Cangel is a little rushed as well IMO, they seem to turn from best friends to in love in a short space of time.
last edited over a year ago
over a year ago mandapanda said…
and also think, she had been after angel from the beginning of Buffy and so on... so she got what she wanted...
over a year ago ILove_Angel8 said…
not to be mean
cuz god knows i love angel


both dudes are pedephiles
over a year ago mad_wicca said…
I'm a Spuffy Lover but im not a Bangel hater i liked them when they were togrther but in he end she belonged with spike plus im also a HUGE Cangel fan so in a way i hate Angel for still being jeleous of spike in ats season 5...
over a year ago april_showers said…
Personally I don't think the age thing is remotely important. Joss himself has said it was an issue, and I just think it's odd when people use this as an argument against Bangel. I've heard people go on about how Buffy was a minor when her and Angel got together, which I couldn't work out at first until I realised that the law is different in California than it is in the UK, where 16 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent at 18 to me seems bizarre, but that just shows how different people's interpretations can be: the age issue never even occurred to me until I read other people's comments about it. The thing people need to remember I think is that while Angel was technically vastly older than Buffy, emotionally I wouldn't say he was far off her age. During the first seasons of Buffy, Angel was learning what it was to live a human life (as much as he could live one anyway), a huge part of which was experiencing love for the first time. I can't imagine that as a mortal Liam ever fell in love, it just doesn't seem to have been in his nature, and certainly as a soulless vampire he never experienced it (despite what people argue re. Spike, I don't believe the demons in Buffy are capable of feeling love if they don't have a soul - while Spike certainly felt emotions for Buffy unusual in a demon, he could not love her until season 7 when he had a soul. Case in point: he tried to rape her. That's not love.) So, during the first few seasons of Buffy, Angel, like Buffy, was maturing, growing up and learning to love. It was all a brand-new experience for him too, and I certainly don't believe he was taking advantage of her or being a paedophile. Besides, Spike was attracted to Buffy from when he first saw her dancing at the Bronze - in a predatory, creepy way, but still, attracted - and this is much more disturbing than Angel's feelings for Buffy, which developed into love. I also don't agree with the idea that Spuffy is 'deeper' than Bangel - it's just more complex and disturbing because of the mix of emotions involved - the fact that Buffy and Angel are in love doesn't make their relationship less deep (in fact I would say it makes it deeper due to the emotional closeness they shared), just less dysfunctional. Not that they didn't have their fair share of drama! Having said all this, I'm not a Spuffy-hater, I just don't like their interaction during season 6 once they start sleeping together, and up until Spike gets his soul back, because I find it disturbing and unpleasant. I've always found it odd when people say that their violent, mutually destructive and painful physical relationship is 'hot'. But that's just me! I do think their interaction for the first half of season 6, and in season 7, is very interesting and touching. Still a Bangel through and through though I'm afraid!
over a year ago destuctogirl said…
The age difference was never an issue for me, i think because Buffy did not deal with things like other 16 year old girls, therefore the "rules" did not necessarily apply to her. And if you look at it from Angels point of view, in his time before turning, he would have been courting a girl that age anyway, that was how things were during that period. I am a Bangel fan all the way. i like Spike I think he is a great character and some of the most hilarious lines in the show. But the relationship between Buffy and Spike never felt real to me, I think both of them hated themselves for the feelings that they were having. I do think what they felt was a form of love, or should I say it grew into love of some kind. But not to the extent of what Buffy and Angel experienced. What Buffy and Angel had was deep and true, they felt each other in ways that Buffy and Spike never did. And dont even start with the Angel and Cordy thing that just never fit for me, not that they didn't have feelings, but I never thought they were the romantic type. That was just icky.
over a year ago sexyspike1 said…
From Buffy's point of view, I had no problem or disgust with him being her first puppy love and for her crushing on him. For Angel, however, I found it a little disturbing, especially when he is watching her when she's only fifteen. That's when it really dawned on me how much older he was then her. But if they had good chemistry and were more than a fairy-tale first love directed towards a younger audience, I'd over-look this fact. What I don't like about their relationship is it's unoriginality. I'm just not a fan of the immature, childish love that Buffy and Angel had. I love Spuffy because it's mature and harsh and angsty, but in the end, so real. Season seven really demonstrated that realness and pure, raw love they possessed for one another. In contrast, Bangel is a couple meant to entertain mostly adolescents. So, no, I suppose the age difference doesn't really bother me that much.
over a year ago maryksand said…
The thing people need to remember I think is that while Angel was technically vastly older than Buffy, emotionally I wouldn't say he was far off her age

That is a very accurate explanation. I'm a 100 procents Spuffy fan myself to make it clear, but the age argument against Bangel I don't really find valid, because Liam was about 25 I think and when he was turned his soul was taken away from him. So when this soul came back to him - Liam came back too. Of course he kept all the Angelus long life experience though but it doesn't mean he had no right to fall in love with a young girl. I have other issues with Bangel: idealization, them not beign able to deal with situation when things got hard and just walking away for some "greater" good and barely interacting throughout the years (not my type of couple), but the age thing never really bothered me.
over a year ago bangel9redux said…
If you want to get technical about it both Spike and Angel are extremely older than her when they have sex with her. They are vampires! They've been around. The whole point is to think of the act in the context of love.
over a year ago jmmzayez said…
Well, i think vampires with no soul can love (of course not in a healthy way), in Heartthrob 3 x 01 on Angel show, it´s about James and Elizabeth, two vampires who love each other. So yes i think Spike with no soul loved Buffy.
Now, “Spike was attracted to Buffy from when he first saw her dancing at the Bronze - in a predatory, creepy way”, well Angel knows Buffy when she´s 15 years old in L.A (this will be reveal in season 2), the scene: she´s eating a candy like a “Lolita”, Spy on her, follow her to Sunnydale, he knows exactly where to find her, romantic? mysterious? I could say creepy, an obsession, he´s a stalker.

About Seeing Red, Just because Angel didn´t try to rape Buffy, that doesn´t mean that his behavior in season 2 wasn´t horrible. He murders Jenny, feeds on human blood again, has sex with Drusilla, wants destroy the world, tortures Giles, tortures Buffy in a psychological way (Willow´s fishes, Joyce), and on season 3 she forgives him like nothing, and many fans don´t seem to have a problem with this.