o rei leão Kopa

bendaimmortal posted on Jan 26, 2011 at 10:48PM
Apart from this wonderful site, is there a discussion forum that does not support Kopa (or any other fictional character) as a religion figure? Because this site isn't actually active and colourful on TLK discussion topics.

I'm really sick of this Kopa religion and can't find an active discussion forum wherein it's not supported. I acknowledge everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want--but when they take their believing to the extent Kopa fans have taken theirs, it becomes a misuse of that right, as they don't believe just for their own entertainment but with it affect the entire fandom and any chance for intellectual discussing.

"Officially to Disney Kopa doesn't exist in the films, but I don't believe it!"
In other words: the film makers must be lying because I don't like what I hear and see.
^
Humane reaction? Yes.
Have the right to believe against facts? Yes.
Any sense in arguing against facts? No.

[Intellectual argument including also facts about Kopa not being canon]
Kopa-believer: "Ugggghhh...." or "Dream killer!" or "You offend me! I'm gonna report you!" or "Its like you want Kopa to disappear from existence!"

"I don't just believe Kopa is canon. I know he is canon."
In other words: I know Kopa is canon even though the film doesn't say the cub's Kopa or even a boy, TLK's makers called the cub Fluffy and gave it no gender, SP's makers used Fluffy for Kiara's presentation in their official trailer, and no one at Disney has ever talked about Kopa, who wasn't even created by Disney but by an outsider. And that's why I'm gonna see no sense in this and that and any valid argument is useless, annoying and offensive because I believe and know better!
^
....

A fictional character in art is not on the same starter line as Christian God for example, because there are no official facts to disprove God's existence any more than there is anything to prove He does. Whereas for fictional characters there are always teh official facts. And no one's gonna feel Kopa's wrath if they believe in the official facts and instead simply keep thinking Kopa as their PERSONAL canon only and make it clear when they speak of it. No one's gonna be stoned to death if they greet intellectual arguments with respect instead of slashing out at them because they make believing that much harder.

I'm in search for another place wherein everyone can share their fan visions and opinions but they have to be kept on a reasonable level. As in a place wherein intellectual discussion and official facts do not have to silence or be backed off just because believers are bothered by them. As in a place wherein those holding religious attitude over a fictional character are required to get real, or--because people have the right to believ--at least required to stop reading posts they keep on interpreting as personal attacks instead of intellectual arguments that they truly are. Because no one is forcing them to read--it is their choice.
^
So that the discussions can get real, and colourful and constructive because they are not held down by religious attitude being supported.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: If believers are allowed to argue the facts with their own beliefs and fantasy world--we should be entitled to argue their beliefs and fantasy worlds with the facts. I'm in search for a place that gets that. So that the discussers would have equal rights.

I. DON'T. hate. Kopa. I only hate the lies of his canoncy which spreads confusion and headache to those who seek the truth and wish to discuss the true canon.

I don't hate Kopa. I would like to discuss him in-depthly, intellectually and basing on the facts of how he was made and where he really exists and where he doesn't, and regarding what possibilities that opens. As in, discuss him in his full potential. Which happens to mean that the religion can not be supported because it blinds the believers from anything real and truly official and makes them unwilling to even discuss it and if someone does, they're gonna be bothered.

Of course my main discussion interest is everything TLK--Kopa just happens to have become a big part of this fandom, apparently.
last edited on Jan 29, 2011 at 01:12PM

o rei leão 13 replies

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over a year ago Comrade_Noa said…
Good ol' Kopa. In reply to your question, no I don't think I've seen a site on this planet that doesn't fawn over Kopa in some way. Granted, I'm guilty of being somewhat of a fan of him but I can agree with your sentiments.

I think the reason that people are so 'omg' about him is because he is one of the few characters tied to the major characters that is essentially a mystery. We don't know much about him except he is a bit of a Simba clone as a cub and had similar interests and appearance as his parents. It was a bit startling to see him vanish all of a sudden and have no one mention him ever since. The only tiny bit of validation we have to his existence which keeps people's interest in Kopa going is Simba's obsessive worryness about Kiara. On the contrary there is little to no evidence to suggest that he actually exists in the canon and I accept that.

Another thing is that because we don't see him older than a cub, we kinda like to project our own vision of him. Talking to a few people who are Kopa lovers in some way, we all had strikingly different views and theories; examples being that he was a world weary rogue or a cold hearted lion etc. I know I've got my own vision and it is all in good fun after all. He is just that kind of character that is so closely related to Simba and Nala that we pick him up and indoctrinate him into our own universe, shape him how we see fit. Whether this was done on Disney's part or not is another debate altogether - if I recall correctly, Six New Adventures was connected to Disney n some way (unless I've got my facts wrong).

Nonetheless though it would be nice to discuss finer points of some characters without it turning into a blind one sided storm.
over a year ago bendaimmortal said…
"On the contrary there is little to no evidence to suggest that he actually exists in the canon and I accept that."

I think any claimed evidence of suggestion blows to the moon by the sequel's makers using the TLK cub for baby Kiara in the official trailer while no film maker ever called the cub Kopa anyway. There's just no arguing that fact. o.O

"He is just that kind of character that is so closely related to Simba and Nala that we pick him up and indoctrinate him into our own universe, shape him how we see fit. Whether this was done on Disney's part or not is another debate altogether"

True, but as he has ever been mentioned in only the book universe, it is highly unlikely Disney paid any attention to him apart from approving those books to exist. And if they did plan something but dropped it, it wouldn't matter, because it was never made official.

"if I recall correctly, Six New Adventures was connected to Disney n some way (unless I've got my facts wrong)."

Disney approved the six books to exist in profit means--that's all for its connetion. The books were written by outsider childrens' book/comic crators. And most certainly Disney's film makers had no connections to the books' existence apart from having created the film the books base on.

And thank you for the intelligent and fine reply! :)
last edited over a year ago
over a year ago Comrade_Noa said…
Haha you're welcome - it is nice to participate in a serious discussion. Most topics don't really spur my interest so I suppose this is a subject that makes a notable exception to that.

I figured so that my facts were slightly wrong - it's been years since I've ever delved into TLK discussion and I've kept my theories and replies to myself. I suppose the connection between the books and the movie is enough for some people, even if it is for profit only. I guess you'd need to think back when the movie was actually released and people were so hyped up about it and loving it and getting their hands on the books following the film's success. It would be natural to think that these were the events that proceeded from here on out and people to get attached to the characters.

Then the sequel came out and I can imagine a few people were very confused. I myself hadn't even realised his existence until many many many years later and I got dragged into the mystery of it all as well. Me liking Kopa is one part mystery, one part ambiguity and one part interpretation. I guess the formula can apply to all characters in some way but his particular position interests me moreso then the others, despite canon or non canon status. Those are just my reasons though. I can gander that people have different reasons but I can attest the mystery part plays a big factor. We don't really exemplify anyone's characteristics except the ones we don't know. It's like wondering (a quick example) who is Kovu's father? Sure we know about the shocking childhood Kovu himself had to go through but there's always going to be some sort of acute interest about his lineage.

I could probably guess that if Kopa had been given a more official explanation he wouldn't be as enigmatic as he is today. It is too far down the line to convince people otherwise that he doesn't have a shred of canon within him because of the prolonged association with Disney.
over a year ago bendaimmortal said…
"I guess you'd need to think back when the movie was actually released and people were so hyped up about it and loving it and getting their hands on the books following the film's success. It would be natural to think that these were the events that proceeded from here on out"

Yeah, well, I can see how people might get attached to the characters, but those fans need to think how Disney approved many other books too which contents contradict SNA and each others, and the books are equally official. So why should SNA be any more official canon than any of the other books? And also how the books were released only in USA while official canon would naturally be shared with the world instead of just USA.

"Then the sequel came out and I can imagine a few people were very confused."

Then apparently not too many had watched the official trailer and/or listened to the commentary track of the first film. (Which I'd find surprising from an active TLK lover.) :O

"I could probably guess that if Kopa had been given a more official explanation he wouldn't be as enigmatic as he is today. It is too far down the line to convince people otherwise that he doesn't have a shred of canon within him because of the prolonged association with Disney."

I don't know... His association with Disney is no more than any of the other just as official books there is. Shoudln't the official explanation be in the fact that the book universe contradicts itself including the SNA books? As in it's saying that the book universe is its own seperate thing and nothing from it officially links to the movies.
over a year ago Comrade_Noa said…
Coming from Australia I'd never seen SNA around myself so that brings validation. I can see where you're coming from with your explanation - I'm just throwing around ideas because it is a shocking mess that has been left over about the book and movie universes.

It is a shame to have so much segregation from the two mediums because I think it would've made a more interesting sequel then what we have current (although that's just me). I suppose I'm like the other people who readily accept the book universes as much as the canon stuff. I'd just like to think I'm more rational in that regard /conceited

Still, never forget the original story. After all that is what got us here in the first place.
over a year ago glelsey said…
smile
I'm only familiar with the movies and the Broadway musical; anything discussed in the Six New Adventures tends to throw me simply because I've not read them.

Now, I like hearing fan theories, but what I don't like is when people try to pass fandom as canon. As I'm unfamiliar with SNA I obviously don't have much of an opinion of Kopa. I'm interested to hear about people's theories about him though; what he would've been like if he'd been in the movies and whatnot. Likewise, I'm interested in what people think some of the dropped characters from the films would have been like if they weren't dropped.

But the key word is "if". As long as people know to keep the theories separate from the canon then it's all good. That's where things tend to get confusing.

I'd actually like to do some research on the book characters, as well as any other characters that didn't make it into the films, and coming up with some theories of my own on what their roles could have been if they were canonically connected to the movie universe. But any theories I post online will come with disclaimers so that *hopefully* no one will misread it as facts about the actual movies!
over a year ago bendaimmortal said…
"But any theories I post online will come with disclaimers so that *hopefully* no one will misread it as facts about the actual movies!"

Strongly encouragable and likely highly appreciated by others. But as said, very few bother to do this while too many do the opposite (claiming their fan theories as official canon)--if anyone is to research any TLK universe character, they do good to not take as a fact anything that isn't from the films or from the film makers' own mouth and also so that you are able to check it out for yourself.
over a year ago bendaimmortal said…
smile
I've now created a discussion forum that aims at avoiding the issue pointed out in this topic:

link
over a year ago Simba_Kopa said…
smile
Kopa is cannon!
over a year ago bendaimmortal said…
smile
Simba_Kopa: Yeah, but not canon. Hence, the word has only one n in it. ;)
over a year ago castlefan1 said…
meh
thx for posting this ! i love kopa , i just hate when people claim him as offical when he is not. i got banned form MLK from so many kopa fans [ a.k.a haters ] and i'm sick of it.
over a year ago boytoy_84 said…
smile
I agree 100%. This Kopa is way out of hand. Some fans believe Kopa is Fluffy when not true and some are confused between TLK ending and TLK 2 opening scene. I do my best to correct them about Kopa on Youtube. Kopa fans need to start knowing that he only exist in TLK6NA books and nothing else. I never heard of Kopa until 2012 which was 18 years that I known TLK and never seen or heard of those books since. It's pretty bad that I only known him for only 3 years. lol
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over a year ago dan11774 said…
Get out of here your not a lk fan