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lances da vida What the HELL happened when I was at work? all the "Brucas fans" :p
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I have no idea!
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Many leyton fãs {excluding me} are playing a "pretend to amor BL/hate LP game
(added by abs07)
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JOKE! We got bored!
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We just fell in amor with brucas <3
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it is jus another way for lp fãs to dig at bl fãs =)
(added by livelovelaugh)
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I know it`s a joke! But why? FREAKSHOW
haha :D
You are really some funny freaks, but you all know that ;)
WE'RE BACK!
ok im normal again!!! it was a very very fun night! we all had a great laugh - killing bob and making apple pie! and the caps lock key! then myra goin onto the bl spot and loosing her fanatic medal all for this! LOL
it was fuckin hilarious being a part of it!! i dont know how many times i wrote about the stinkin comet bein brooke or the QOH .. and RED!!! haha but no were back to normal!!
it sounds like you guys had fun though:D haha
That was jokes.
btw mtoll4 i love your new icon=D
Sooo funn!!! Lol.
this whole game is an example :DD
I think they dont want to come right out and admit that they love BL so they "pretend to like" BL ;) lol
we were really bored and it was funny but I missed my LP so much!!
thank god it's over!! I was about to call my cheating ex boyfriend and write him 82 letters!!
yeahhhh i agree with this option.
SaBrucas more likely is for all the guys of this planet to become gay..that FOR US TO SHIP THIS "THING" lmao!
ALE <333
No need to write 82 letters to your ex boyfriend why dont you just wait for him to tell you he hates you and that you ruined his life and then to call you and propose to you over the phone.
You guys know Im right!;)
It was a joke not an insult it is jus another way for lp...
oth-brucas4ever!!
and I agree with abs...everything is better than a cheating boyfriend who makes you insecure and specially Leyton is way much better than that!!
btw Lucas was NOT the one making Brooke insecure it was Seyton. And Lucas did NOT kiss Seyton...Seyton ambushed him. And the only reason Lucas did not tell Brooke was that the kiss meant NOTHING to Lucas.
again I dont know what happy end youre talking about since the show didnt end yet, but even then I'm glad Brooke is not the one who is being treated like a doormat.
lol oth-brucas4ever.
I agree with EVERYTHING Abby said! And btw, LF4E, LMAO "^^Ohhh snap, someone just got BURNED!" hahaha! Great comment;D
You can blame peyton all you want, but before brooke found out about Leyton, Brooke was always insecure about Lucas. Season 1 - "I actually felt inferior to you." "Luke brings up art and books and music and I've got nothing!" "Brooke thinks she's not being a good enough girlfriend." "Me, he just uses." That had nothing to do with Peyton. Also, by 317/322/401, Brooke finally said what's been looming in her mind about her relationship with Lucas "I want you to save me for a change"; "I am holding on for dear life, but I need you to need me back!" "Why won't you ever just let me all the way in???" "We go days without a meaningful conversation. and I used to miss you so much when that happened. but it never seemed like you missed me." That screams insecurity that had NOTHING to do with Peyton. Her past with Lucas didn't help cause it would always be there, but brooke put it behind her and trusted peyton by the end of season 1. Peyton added fuel to the fire with her 3.21 confession, but brucas' problems started far before and were far beyond leyton's past & peyton's revelation.
Abs...my point was/is that OTH is not over so I wouldnt be talking about happy endings or who's love prevailed just yet.
Lucas did not treat Brooke like a doormat. Brooke didnt let him. ever. Brooke made HIM fight for HER. Unlike Peyton who just sat there moped, pined and cried to the point where it was beyond annoying. He never told Brooke he hated her and that she ruined his life. Peyton is his safety he knows she's ALWAYS going to be there even if he treats her like sh*t. And Peyton did prove that by saying yes to his proposal. So please dont even try to say that he didnt treat Peyton like crap or that Peyton is not a doormat.
Brooke didnt let him. ever. "Brooke gave you her heart - you should give yours back." What do you call that??? My dear, it was the other way around. Did luke ever say "You didn't let me all the way in?" or "I need you to need me back"??? No! Brooke told luke everything! She let him read her 82 letters! She always told him when she needed him (help with her clothing line; when she wanted him to fight for her; when she wanted him to save her for a change, etc.). She let luke know what was on her mind - all her insecurities (310, 314, 317, 322), all her desires ("I wanted you to fight for me" "I wanted the Lucas who told the world that he was the guy for me!"). Brooke was more open with luke than she was with anyone else (excluding peyton). That's why it hurt all the more when he broke her heart all over again.
Peyton who just sat there moped, pined and cried to the point where it was beyond annoying You know what, I'm not gonna argue with you about peyton's character. That's an entirely different debate. If that's how you see Peyton, fine. Whatever. I'm not gonna waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Peyton is his safety he knows she's ALWAYS going to be there even if he treats her like sh*tWhat the hell was season 1 when Brooke was luke's safety net and luke hid with her??? What the hell was season 5 when Lindsey was luke's safety net so he hid with her??? You think Peyton's his safety net now? Brucas fans need to get their arguments straight. I've read comments time and time again for years now that leyton is a mess, that they always break up and have problems staying together and they hide from their feelings too much, afraid to be together. Now they're a safety net? Stop flipping back and forth. There are some brucas fans I can debate with who at least stand somewhere and stay there.
So please dont even try to say that he didnt treat Peyton like crap or that Peyton is not a doormat. You didn't prove otherwise so why shouldn't I say he treats her well? You're saying that all the things I listed about the crap luke pulled with brooke vs the TWO things luke did to Peyton means that overall luke treats Peyton like a doormat? You think that substantiates your argument?? If Luke treats Peyton like a doormat then he treated brooke like amibas on flees on rats!
you have to admit that Leyton`s love is much stronger then Brucas ever was I doubt that will ever happen :P! Despite the fact that brucas' love wasn't the love whitey described in his speech, and despite the fact that leyton's love came out stronger than ever despite s5's perils, I don't expect saBRUCAS to say that leyton's love is stronger than brucas - being a loyal fan and all. she sees their love differently. So I don't blame her for quantifying it differently.
but I'm just surprised she actually thinks luke treated brooke better than peyton. You can't deny history. Most brucas fans I've talked to can even attest to the fact that luke treated peyton better (it doesn't make them ANY less of a brucas fan or any more of a leyton lover). I'm sure many will deny it (especially those who remained camped in the brucas spot), but the two mistakes Luke made with Peyton when he wasn't even with her are trumped by the dozen (at least) he's made with Brooke in and out of the relationship (and I've already listed them so the numbers don't lie). Whatever, lol.
You know what I never asked you to debate with me you started it. We will NEVER agree on anything, and we have already said that many times in our previous aruguments. I obviously dont agree with any thing you say. And yes that is how I see Peyton and there is no one who can convince me otherwise because they will be going completely against the show.
"Brooke gave you her heart - you should give yours back." What do you call that??? My dear, it was the other way around. Did luke ever say "You didn't let me all the way in?" or "I need you to need me back"??? No! Brooke told luke everything! She let him read her 82 letters! She always told him when she needed him (help with her clothing line; when she wanted him to fight for her; when she wanted him to save her for a change, etc.). She let luke know what was on her mind - all her insecurities (310, 314, 317, 322), all her desires ("I wanted you to fight for me" "I wanted the Lucas who told the world that he was the guy for me!"). Brooke was more open with luke than she was with anyone else (excluding peyton). That's why it hurt all the more when he broke her heart all over again.
"You didn't let me all the way in?" The only reason Brooke said was because of Keith's death and how Lucas was acting the past couple of episodes. And later when they were dancing he clarified everything. So I honestly dont get how he never let her in? He needed time and thats understandable. Tell me one thing he didnt tell Brooke? He even told her about the kiss, that meant nothing to him.
And all those things you mentioned and all those things Brooke told him to do he did. He fought for her. Did he ever fight for Peyton? No! Because when Lucas couldnt have anyone else he went to Peyton.
but I'm just surprised she actually thinks luke treated brooke better than peyton.
Obviously you would be surprised since you ship Leyton and I ship Brucas but seriously no need to go crazy. It is not that shocking as you make it out to be.
IMO Lucas not only treated but treats Peyton like sh*t! and he never treated Brooke as bad as he treated Peyton. And its not only me even some LPers admit that Lucas treated Peyton like sh*t in S5 so please spare me the "Lucas treated Peyton better than Brooke"
debate. And seriously dont know which Brucas fans you're talking about there but I surely havent talked to them but I have talked to many LPer who agree with me.
SAbrucas, the only reason you think that kiss didn`t mean anything is because you love brucas..
And the only reason you and the rest of LP fans think that kiss meant something is because you love Pucas. So what?
Lucas said many many times to Brooke, Peyton and I think to Skillz also that that kiss meant nothing.
But Peyton, he truly loved her and treated her just like he should! Except some small issues that just said how stupid HE is!
Except some small issues? He kissed her then proposed to Lindsay, knowing that Peyton was crazy in love with him. Said "I do" to Lindsey. Every time Peyton wanted to talk to him he would say something like "Im going to get Lindsay back" or "Im in love with her Peyton." While Peyton cried her freakin head off! Then when Peyton took care of him and said sorry he said " I hate you I wish you'd never come back, and you ruined my life." And then he pined for Lindsay the WHOLE season even till the last episode of S5 and then when he knew Lindsay would never come back to him, he called Peyton and asked her to marry him and Peyton being the desperate doormat that she is said "yes." You call those small issues?
"You didn't let me all the way in?" The only reason Brooke said was because of Keith's death and how Lucas was acting the past couple of episodes. And later when they were dancing he clarified everything. So I honestly dont get how he never let her in? He needed time and thats understandable. Tell me one thing he didnt tell Brooke? He even told her about the kiss, that meant nothing to him. No! Luke also didn't call brooke while he was away. Luke also rarely had a meaningful conversation with brooke ("we go days without a meaningful conversation"). It wasn't the one time. It was their relationship in general. And luke never just out and told brooke about the kiss. It was an accident remember??? He thought she knew! Watch 322 again. "I accidentally told brooke about the kiss. - Luke.
And all those things you mentioned and all those things Brooke told him to do he did. He fought for her. Did he ever fight for Peyton? No We've been through this! Luke did fight for Peyton. Difference is she NEVER had to ask! What do you call 1.13, 1.15, 411, 505 & the s5 flashback phonecall about the book signing???
Obviously you would be surprised since you ship Leyton and I ship Brucas but seriously no need to go crazy. It is not that shocking as you make it out to be.
IMO Lucas not only treated but treats Peyton like sh*t! and he never treated Brooke as bad as he treated Peyton. And its not only me even some LPers admit that Lucas treated Peyton like sh*t in S5 so please spare me the "Lucas treated Peyton better than Brooke"
debate. And seriously dont know which Brucas fans you're talking about there but I surely havent talked to them but I have talked to many LPer who agree with me. lol, which LPer agreed with you? anyway, my thinking luke treated peyton better than brooke has nothing to do with who I ship. You just make it one or the other. Like if a BLer admits something good about leyton then they're "less" of a Bler and vice versa. Ppl are aloud to state facts without changing their personal preference - this isn't a war. I made a list of reasons to back up my claim - so far all you have is two mistakes luke made with peyton and you haven't even addressed the giant list I made up about luke's transgressions against brooke. but believe what you want. By the way, I'm not going crazy over it, i'm just getting impatient with you because of the way you approach an argument (no offense).
And the only reason you and the rest of LP fans think that kiss meant something is because you love Pucas. So what? I'm not sure where mtoll4 stands, but the kiss was platonic IMO. However luke was hiding from his heart in s3 so it could have meant more deep down - but it wasn't a romantic moment. That's where I stand - does that make me any less of an LPer? Didn't think so.
Except some small issues? He kissed her then proposed to Lindsay, knowing that Peyton was crazy in love with him. Said "I do" to Lindsey. Every time Peyton wanted to talk to him he would say something like "Im going to get Lindsay back" or "Im in love with her Peyton." While Peyton cried her freakin head off! Then when Peyton took care of him and said sorry he said " I hate you I wish you'd never come back, and you ruined my life." And then he pined for Lindsay the WHOLE season even till the last episode of S5 and then when he knew Lindsay would never come back to him, he called Peyton and asked her to marry him and Peyton being the desperate doormat that she is said "yes." You call those small issues? Why are you stretching out two mistakes into ten? He kissed her in s5e7 then proposed to lindsey. Then he said he hated her in s5e17, when he was drunk! TWO mistakes. The other stuff you mentioned was him trying to "FIX" his mistake (of cheating). You may not understand leyton, but it wasn't like the proposal was out of the blue - peyton pined after 507, yes. but only up till the end of 508! She let him go, remember? and she did her best to ship lundsey. She even tried to get them back together cause she genuinely wanted luke to be happy. You call that self piteous whining??? She was incredibly gracious. It was only until she read luke's book that she realized he was still in love with her - so she made one last effort to tell luke where she stood by the finale. The proposal was a longtime coming. Call it whatever you want - call it desperation, call it pathetic, but I call it selfless, humble love.
No I think you misunderstood me, I just dont want to debate with you about this not the Peyton thing but about this, because we will never agree on anything. Not that I dont love debating, I just dont see the point.
No! Luke also didn't call brooke while he was away. Luke also rarely had a meaningful conversation with brooke ("we go days without a meaningful conversation"). It wasn't the one time. It was their relationship in general. And luke never just out and told brooke about the kiss. It was an accident remember??? He thought she knew! Watch 322 again. "I accidentally told brooke about the kiss. - Luke.
He didnt call Brooke because he needed sometime! He wasnt treating her badly. His uncle/father figure got shot and died, so it was understandable that he's going to need time. After the party that Brooke threw for him he explains everything, and same with 322.
Yes, telling Brooke about the kiss was an accident, but the only reason he didnt tell her was that the kiss meant nothing and it would only cause problems.
Also I didnt understand why Brooke said "we go days without having meaningful conversations" I guess she was talking about a couple of days when Lucas was away because he needed time, but other than that they had the Rachel's cabin episode before S3 finale and that was so good for Brucas, they had plenty of meaningful conversations. That is why, for me, the Brucas break up was forced and sudden.
Your telling me that Im stretching 2 of Lucas mistakes into 10, when you're stretching Lucas needing someTime after Keiths death into 1890740987345981723 mistakes. And your saying as if Brooke opening up to Lucas and talking about her insecurties is a bad thing. Thats what couples do! they talk about issues. Leyton doesn't do that hence why even some LPers are frusrated with LP because they're not talking about their issues, which were NOT small issue and 2 mistakes. Those were HUGE issues, Lucas treated Peyton horribly in S5.
He proposed to her, she rejected him and he ran away. Mistake 1. If he LOVED her soooooo much he would have waited, no matter what you say.
He kissed Peyton, mistake 2. He never should have kissed her back if he was going to go back to Lindsay anyway.
He proposed to Lindsey 5 minutes after. Mistake 3. He knew Peyton loved because Peyton had just told him, but still he proposed.
Already more than 2!
And I know Im missing some...the "does an alarm go off in your head every time Im happy in a relationship" fight. That was really disrespectful to Peyton and I hate her but I still felt like he shouldnt have said that, even though I agree with it.
Saying "I do" infront of Peyton. When ever Peyton and Lucas talked he would make some comment about Lindsay for example "Im in love with her, Peyton" "Im going to get her back" "She's going to come back to me" ect.
She even tried to get them back together cause she genuinely wanted luke to be happy.
Funniest bit in your post. Its really funny how Peyton always tries to get Lucas back with the person he originally was with...After ruining it in the first place. Did that with Brucas and with Lindsey. God I hate Peyton. Its not gracious when she first kisses him, tells him she loves him, tells him not to marry Lindsay, causes Lindsey to doubt Lucas's love for her, and then tells him that she's letting him go... like he was hers in the first place. You might call that being gracious, I call that being a mega bi*ch.
The proposal was a longtime coming. Call it whatever you want - call it desperation, call it pathetic, but I call it selfless, humble love.
Its funny how you call it selfless love when they, Lucas and Peyton, themselves call it selfish!!!
" I wanna be selfish with you"
Yes, telling Brooke about the kiss was an accident, but the only reason he didnt tell her was that the kiss meant nothing and it would only cause problems. Brooke just wanted the truth - she would have been hurt, but at least luke would have been open about it. and remember this, it did mean something. Luke even admitted it. but it wasn't a romantic moment (watch 322 again).
Also I didnt understand why Brooke said "we go days without having meaningful conversations" I guess she was talking about a couple of days when Lucas was away because he needed time, but other than that they had the Rachel's cabin episode before S3 finale and that was so good for Brucas, they had plenty of meaningful conversations. That is why, for me, the Brucas break up was forced and sudden. The cabin was one of few. Brooke never said we "never" have a meaningful conversation. I remember the cabin scenario well. They had one meaningful convo. They also talked about brooke's 82 letters in 311 I believe. But if you sum up all of season 3, there weren't many meaningful conversations (we go days without a meaningful conversation). That's why Brooke said what she said.
Your telling me that Im stretching 2 of Lucas mistakes into 10, when you're stretching Lucas needing someTime after Keiths death into 1890740987345981723 mistakes wow, read my comment again. Did you miss all that I said before and after the fact? Once again, 310, 313, 314, THEN 317 & 320, then 322...How did I stretch the keith's death thing? What made you interpret that? I said in 317 he didn't let Brooke in but had no problem letting peyton in - then i said he didn't call brooke while he was away. Is that stretching it into 123539851759857198571985713985 mistakes? lol, no!
And your saying as if Brooke opening up to Lucas and talking about her insecurities is a bad thing. Thats what couples do! There's a difference between talking a relationship out and battling out stagnant issues that go back to season 1. and if you're gonna point out luke's mistakes in s5 with peyton (and how leyton hardly talked about it), then did brucas talk about what luke pulled with Brooke before they hooked up in s3? about Luke basically calling brooke a skank or leaving her in jail for kicks, etc? NO. they forgave and forgot. Leyton did the same - "I don't hate you. It was hard letting you go peyton. It was hard seeing you again and it's still...really hard." (he explained what probably fueled his erratic behavior in s5). "You're a mess Lucas Scott, but you're my mess and I love you." (she basically said, you hurt me, but I knew you were just hiding your heart - but I forgive you and wanna be with you). They did talk, in their own way. They understand eachother in a way you'll probably never understand [with that attitude].
He proposed to her, she rejected him and he ran away. Mistake 1. If he LOVED her soooooo much he would have waited, no matter what you say. I don't understand you. You and I have had this debate before. You keep bringing up stuff we've already talked about. Luke DID wait for her. The whole year they stopped speaking luke still waited. He called her to come to his book signing remember? it was when he thought she didn't bother that he decided to move on ("maybe you just didn't care" - Luke).
He kissed Peyton, mistake 2. He never should have kissed her back if he was going to go back to Lindsay anyway DUH. That was never disputed. Yes, luke actually made a mistake with Peyton. His first ever and you just can't let it go. Lindsey was luke's safety net - so he ran to her but his heart still remained with Peyton. He gave in in a moment of weakness, but was afraid of his heart so he ran away from it - to lindsey. but he always knew deep down that he needed to face his fears, grow up and listen to his heart ("I always knew").
He proposed to Lindsey 5 minutes after. Mistake 3. He knew Peyton loved because Peyton had just told him, but still he proposed.
Already more than 2! What do you mean more than two??? You JUST said he shouldn't have kissed peyton if he was gonna go back to lindsey. Hello...you just repeated yourself.
"does an alarm go off in your head every time Im happy in a relationship" fight. That was really disrespectful to Peyton and I hate her but I still felt like he shouldnt have said that, even though I agree with it. Make up your mind. If you agree with what he said, how was it a mistake? I wasn't mad at luke for saying it. They were talking it out. Whatever!
Saying "I do" infront of Peyton; "Im in love with her, Peyton" "Im going to get her back" "She's going to come back to me"lol, saBRUCAS, really? that's your argument? He made a decision when he ran to lindsey and he stuck with it. The mistake was kissing peyton then running to lindsey. But once Peyton let luke go, leyton were friends, and peyton supported luke's decision. Peyton even tried to HELP the guy get lindsey back and when luke voiced his "confidence" that lindsey would return to him, peyton said "I hope so". So don't even, lol. luke was free to do what he wanted - to walk his path, that eventually led to Peyton anyway.
Its really funny how Peyton always tries to get Lucas back with the person he originally was with...After ruining it in the first place I'm sorry, did Peyton tell Luke to write SECOND book about her???? Give me a break. Lindsey never knew about leyton's kiss in 507 when she left luke at the altar. So Peyton didn't ruin anything. Luke ruined it all by himself.
Its funny how you call it selfless love when they, Lucas and Peyton, themselves call it selfish!!!" I wanna be selfish with you" You are hilarious. He said that in the context that for once, Leyton needed to put themselves FIRST and just BE together regardless of what people think. That's all! Believe what you want.
Yes, Brucas talked abou they're issues. You keep telling me to watch 322, maybe you should watch S2 overall! Brooke and Lucas developed a friendship and all those issues were sorted out. They even talked about it in S1. When Lucas goes over to her house to talk about the pregnancy. That is the only way they were able to be friends. What he did to Brooke wanst nearly as bad as what he did to Peyton. He almost married someoneelse. They should talk about that. HE said "I do" to another girl and they should talk about that. What you're talking about were little, tiny scenes when they were 16 and Brucas were mad at each other. But they still talked about their issues. Like when Brooke goes over to Lucas's house in 309 and the 82 letters speech Brooke gave. She explained everything she did and why she did it. Lucas explained his cheating in S1 in the S2 finale. They talked about the letters like you mentioned, they have always talked about their issues. Seeing how they're much older now and seeing how everyone considers Brucas just "high school" one would think they would be more eager to talk about their problems but NO! They just wanna do it in Karen's room!
They did talk, in their own way. They understand eachother in a way you'll probably never understand [with that attitude]
This is reallllly funny!!!!!! My attitude? You're telling me that I have to change my attitude to understand and like Leyton? Never going to happen. Leyton will never ever make sense to me and its not about my atitude towards them. If it was then why dont you like Brucas? The fact is they havent talked and you're one of the few LPers I have talked to who say they have. Go on othforums and check it out. Alot of LPers are frustrated by LP this season because they HAVENT talked about what happened in S5.
wow, read my comment again. Did you miss all that I said before and after the fact? Once again, 310, 313, 314, THEN 317 & 320, then 322...How did I stretch the keith's death thing? What made you interpret that? I said in 317 he didn't let Brooke in but had no problem letting peyton in - then i said he didn't call brooke while he was away. Is that stretching it into 123539851759857198571985713985 mistakes? lol, no!
I read your comment, and you talk about Brooke wanting things from Lucas, and Brooke telling him things and opening up to him. So what? I though we already discussed this.
"Brooke gave you her heart - you should give yours back." What do you call that??? My dear, it was the other way around. Did luke ever say "You didn't let me all the way in?" or "I need you to need me back"??? No! Brooke told luke everything! She let him read her 82 letters! She always told him when she needed him (help with her clothing line; when she wanted him to fight for her; when she wanted him to save her for a change, etc.). She let luke know what was on her mind - all her insecurities (310, 314, 317, 322), all her desires ("I wanted you to fight for me" "I wanted the Lucas who told the world that he was the guy for me!"). Brooke was more open with luke than she was with anyone else (excluding peyton). That's why it hurt all the more when he broke her heart all over again. This is what you said in your previous post. The insecurties is Lucas treating her badly? The insecurties werent even his fault. They were Peyton's. Lucas kept assuring Brooke of his love. How is that treating her badly? And as for Brooke opening up to Lucas, well I dont know how that is Lucas treating her badly? Thats what couples do they talk and Lucas opened up to her too. She knew about the HCM, she knew about him not playing basketball, he let her know everything. He never hid anything from her. Where did he let Peyton in more than Brooke?
And please dont say that Brooke said "why wont you ever just let me all the way in?" Becuase honestly when did he not let her in? Yeah he was kinda wierd after Keiths death but that was understandable, like I have said many times already.
I don't understand you. You and I have had this debate before. You keep bringing up stuff we've already talked about. Luke DID wait for her. The whole year they stopped speaking luke still waited. He called her to come to his book signing remember? it was when he thought she didn't bother that he decided to move on ("maybe you just didn't care" - Luke).
Yeah we have talked about this we have talked about everything and will not agree on anything. lol. That is why I said lets not debate anymore.
But the mistake was him leaving her. He never should have left her. He should have never given her the ultimatum. He broke up with her because she said someday.
What do you mean more than two??? You JUST said he shouldn't have kissed peyton if he was gonna go back to lindsey. Hello...you just repeated yourself.
Let me put it this way:
Mistake 1: Leaving her after proposing to her.
Mistake 2: Kissing her. Why did he kiss her back and leave her?
Mistake 3: Proposing to Lindsay. Why did he propose to Lindsey after kissing her? and especially after knowing she loves him.
Get it? more than 2.
Make up your mind. If you agree with what he said, how was it a mistake? I wasn't mad at luke for saying it. They were talking it out. Whatever!
You liked that he said that to Peyton? You didnt think that was disrespectful? I love it when people are disrespectful to Peyton. Like when Brooke made that comment about Peytons mothers, it was mean but I didnt mind it because I hate Peyton and I thought she deserved it. But Im not going to say it wasn't mean.
How were they talking it out? By throwing books at each other?
lol, saBRUCAS, really? that's your argument? He made a decision when he ran to lindsey and he stuck with it. The mistake was kissing peyton then running to lindsey. But once Peyton let luke go, leyton were friends, and peyton supported luke's decision. Peyton even tried to HELP the guy get lindsey back and when luke voiced his "confidence" that lindsey would return to him, peyton said "I hope so". So don't even, lol. luke was free to do what he wanted - to walk his path, that eventually led to Peyton anyway.
Lucas and Peyton were NOT friends in S5. When and what did they do that showed you that they were friends? They were so awkward all of S5 you have got to be kidding me with the friends.
So yea, why did Lucas have to voice his confidence infront of Peyton? When he knew that Peyton was in love with him.
And Peyton helping Lucas and Lindsay? Please! She always cares about thing after she has done the damage. Cause problems with Brucas, then tried helping them. Caused problems with Lucas and Lindsay and THEN tried helping them. Doesn't work that way. Peyton made it pretty obvious that she loved Lucas to Lindsay that is why she was so insecure about it and that is why she questioned Lucas's love for her. If Peyton didnt ruin it she wouldn't say sorry to Lucas and Lindsay. And Lucas wouldnt have said you "I hate you" and "you ruined my life." Like I said before you might call this being gracious, I call it being a mega bi*ch.
You are hilarious. He said that in the context that for once, Leyton needed to put themselves FIRST and just BE together regardless of what people think. That's all! Believe what you want.
No you're funnier! seeing how you reallly think they're love is selfless. Peyton would do anything to get Lucas which was proven in S5. They dont care who the hurt. There isn't a single selfless bone in them when they're together. Look at S6. Haley and Jamie got attacked, Brooke got attacked did they even talk to them about that? NO they have been so wrapped up in themselves and they're making jokes about Lindsay and Brooke.
What he did to Brooke wanst nearly as bad as what he did to Peyton. He almost married someoneelse. OMG. saBRUCAS, it's not like Leyton were not going out when Luke almost married someone else. I mean, Brooke went out with Felix even though her heart was with Lucas, but did Brucas talk about that? NO! Luke declared his feelings for brooke in 223 but brooke ran scared, so Luke waited. Peyton professed she still wanted to be with Lucas, but he ran scared, so Peyton waited. She LET LUCAS GO by 508, so he was free to "almost marry" anyone he wanted. Peyton believed that it would all be ok ("the love you professed will always be there. a seed of hope, the truth, for better or worse, burning fiercely just below the surface."). With the help of Haley ("STOP hiding your heart!"), Luke's dream (601) and the Comet (which Luke later realized was about peyton and that they had unfinished business), Luke already sorted out his heart. and Peyton knew he would - she just waited, hoped. Leyton sorted things out more than you think. If there was bent up hostility, I'd say, yeah, Leyton should talk things out. I also hope that Leyton talk further, but I won't think that their relationship is in danger. Brucas talked things out so often because they were often FIGHTING about it. Leyton haven't been FIGHTING about lindsey - they've been JOKING about her ("clearly i've made a mistake. I'm calling lindsey" "fine, if you think that'll help, HAHAHAHA" "I've found a great picture to replace the one of lindsey").
She explained everything she did and why she did it Luke said NOTHING back but "it's ok. I know I hurt you before --" "I love you". Yeah, really, nice talk. It was basically one sided! Leyton did the same thing. Like I mentioned before, Luke explained the reason for his behavior in 518. Do I need to retype the dialogue??? Then Peyton kindly summed up Luke's stupidity in 601 @ the airport but also said she loved him all the same. Brucas didn't talk much more when they made up in 309 than leyton did in 601.
his is reallllly funny!!!!!! My attitude? You're telling me that I have to change my attitude to understand and like Leyton? See, that's your problem. You see "understanding leyton" as "liking" them. I never told you to like them. Man. I am able to understand where Brucas is coming from, but you refuse to even see leyton from an objective point of view. You're all about the hate rants. There are many brucas fans i've talked to who see Leyton in a new light or even in a slightly positive light but they still can't stand them as a couple. They just understand them more. It doesn't make them any less of brucas fans.
Alot of LPers are frustrated by LP this season because they HAVENT talked about what happened in S5. I am well aware that some LPers are frustrated that LP haven't talked further. Just like BLers are frustrated on how BL were able to end things so simply in 408. Fans from BOTH camps are always gonna have issues with the way things are written on behalf of their fav couples - that's just the way it is. It doesn't make others crazy if they understand and approve of the way things are going. We all see things from different perspectives.
This is what you said in your previous post. The insecurties is Lucas treating her badly? The insecurties werent even his fault. They were Peyton's. You keep blaming peyton. You need to re-read what I've written before time and time again. It's not just Brooke's general insecurities, it's Luke who kept giving her reasons to worry. Did Peyton make luke write those love letters to her all those years ago? Did Peyton make luke write a love letter to brooke in which he repeat the same words he used on Peyton??? Did Peyton tell Luke to choose to help her over Brooke in 310? Did Peyton tell Luke to push Brooke away time and time again? Common! Luke played a big part in Brooke's insecurities. You can't ONLY use Leyton's past in s1; there's more to it.
She knew about the HCM, she knew about him not playing basketball, he let her know everything Um, Brooke knew about Luke's HCM and not playing basketball once he came out to EVERYONE about it. I don't recall one scene where Luke actually told Brooke about his HCM/or frustrations about not playing anymore.
He never hid anything from her. Where did he let Peyton in more than Brooke? He hid the kiss from her. He hid his HCM from her - like I said, Brooke knew, once everyone else knew. And again, like I already said, 317 is when Luke let Peyton in. You need to read my comments carefully cause I'm finding that you're asking me the same questions or asking questions I've already answered.
And please dont say that Brooke said "why wont you ever just let me all the way in?" Becuase honestly when did he not let her in? Yeah he was kinda wierd after Keiths death Lol, saBRUCAS, it's like you have selected hearing. You refuse to take into account how brooke felt. You blame all her insecurities on Peyton (without taking s1 BEFORE the affair into account, without taking Luke's ACTIONS into account) and you don't want to take Brooke's words into account. I won't repeat myself. I've already listed the evidence that backs up brooke's claim that Luke never let her all the way in (and i'm not just referring to keith's death). I've mentioned it time and time again. Read my comments again.
Yeah we have talked about this we have talked about everything and will not agree on anything. lol. saBRUCAS, it's not just about not agreeing on things, it's that you re-ask questions I've already answered. You don't address my answers, you just often ask the same questions or make repeated claims that i've addressed - you restating claims I've already addressed just makes it look like you have no counterargument.
But the mistake was him leaving her. He never should have left her. He should have never given her the ultimatum. He broke up with her because she said someday. You guys keep forgetting that despite his mistake of leaving her, he DID try to rectify his mistake. He CALLED her to come to his book signing. He wanted to sort things out. But the misunderstanding at the book signing led peyton to believe Lundsey were together and led luke to believe that Peyton didn't care to show up and work on their relationship.
Let me put it this way:
Mistake 1: Leaving her after proposing to her.
Mistake 2: Kissing her. Why did he kiss her back and leave her?
Mistake 3: Proposing to Lindsay. Why did he propose to Lindsey after kissing her? and especially after knowing she loves him.
Get it? more than 2. Ok, Mistake number 2 and 3 are the same mistake. He went back to be with Lindsey (proposal or not, he cheated then pretended it didn't happen so he could continue to hide with lindsey). You splitting it into two is unrealistic IMO.
You liked that he said that to Peyton? You didnt think that was disrespectful? I love it when people are disrespectful to Peyton. Like when Brooke made that comment about Peytons mothers, it was mean but I didnt mind it because I hate Peyton and I thought she deserved it. But Im not going to say it wasn't mean.
How were they talking it out? By throwing books at each other? saBRUCAS stick to one argument. You keep tangenting and it's very annoying, lol! ok, first off, I never said I LIKED what Luke said to Peyton, I said I wasn't mad at him for it. He was expressing his frustration and he could have been really mean about it but he was just being sarcastic. again, whatever! Second of all, I cannot believe you would think Peyton deserved to have her mothers' deaths made fun of. No offense, but how old are you? That's low. Really low. Brooke didn't have to stoop to such a level because she was angry at Peyton. Third, I said Leyton talked it out in 507, so why are you bringing up 506??? By the way, yeah, Peyton threw books at lucas but they still talked it out - intensely...remind you of say, I dunno, 313??? When Brooke hit luke with a flashlight and ran off hysterically into the rain demanding him to profess why he wanted to be with her? You keep taking jabs at moments leyton had but you need to remember brucas had similar moments!
Lucas and Peyton were NOT friends in S5. When and what did they do that showed you that they were friends? They were so awkward all of S5 you have got to be kidding me with the friends. Um, lemme see, all the time they said they were friends??? Yeah, they were awkward, cause they were in LOVE. but that's besides the point. They tried to be friends and at times they were able to have conversations with eachother. They were even occasionally able to open up to one another despite the awkwardness - they were still THERE for eachother DESPITE the awkwardness, that's what real friends are for.
So yea, why did Lucas have to voice his confidence infront of Peyton? When he knew that Peyton was in love with him. Because Peyton voiced that she let him go. She told him to be Happy. She still wanted to be his friend and so he was free to open up to her about his life - which at the time, included Lindsey.
And Peyton helping Lucas and Lindsay? Please! She always cares about thing after she has done the damage You keep repeating yourself! lol, it's really frustrating. Our debates often go in circles cause you state things I've already addressed, but you avoid replying with a counterargument. Again, what DAMAGE did Peyton inflict? If Lindsey knew about the kiss in 507 or if Luke ended up going back to Peyton after the kiss, I'd see your point and wouldn't be able to deny the damage peyton would have inflicted. but Lindsey never knew about the kiss, so it's just considered a stupid move, not damage, cause Luke still chose lindsey! Luke was the one who made Lindsey uneasy when she saw his car at peyton's office in 506. Or when she saw Luke following Peyton around at Tric. Or when she read the SECOND book Luke wrote about Peyton. It was LUCAS. Peyton did NOTHING to make Lindsey run away - Lindsey was even gracious enough to let Peyton know that she didn't blame her - cause she could have said "yes" at the altar.
Haley and Jamie got attacked, Brooke got attacked did they even talk to them about that? Do you realize that Haley didn't see Peyton after she got attacked by Psycho Derek? BOTH times? Do you realize that we never actually saw Nate embracing his family after the Nanny Carrie attack? There's only so much screentime - just cause we didn't see a scene, it doesn't mean the characters don't care or worry for one another. Remember all the good we got to see Peyton's do despite her PAIN in s5 - she was there for skillz, brooke, haley, mia, molly, LUKE, Nate! She made a difference in their lives.
They dont care who the hurt You're mixing up "they've hurt people" for "they don't care who they hurt". If they didn't care, they wouldn't have broken up in s1 for Brooke. Peyton wouldn't have bore away her feelings for Luke for so long (s2-3/4), Peyton wouldn't have let Luke go in 508. Peyton wouldn't have tried to convince lindsey to take luke back. I'm not saying Leyton haven't been selfish in the past (cheating x2), I'm saying that they've made more selfLESS moves than selfISH.
Brooke and Felix can not be compared to Lucas and Lindsey. They were not serious, they didnt have 2 year long relatioship and they didnt almost get married. They DIDNT love each other. Lucas and Lindsay loved each other. And technically Lucas married her because he said "I do." And it wasnt like Brooke was pining for Felix for a whole season. Lucas pined, cried, waited and fought for Lindsay. Brooke didnt do either of these things. And it wasnt like Brooke broke up with Felix one second and got with Lucas another. She broke up on her own terms.
Peyton waited and let Lucas go? Why do LP fans think Lucas was hers to let go of in the first place? And when did she wait? It was more like she gave up for one day and then the next she was back on the river court drawing a comet trying to get him back. Or helping him when he was drunk and kissing him and saying I never meant to hurt you?
Brucas talk because they fight? Thats funny were they fighting when they talked about the 82 letters, were they fight when they talked about Lucas and Keith, were they fighting when they talked about rescuing each other? They were NOT fighting they were talking about problems, which is something couples do and work through, and Brucas was able to do that.
Leyton haven't been FIGHTING about lindsey They dont have to fight about it they have to talk about it. They could atleast talk about Lucas saying "I do" to her.
And you saying that they joke about it, doesnt make Leyton any better. It makes them sound selfish, like I mentioned in my previous post. Especially Peyton doing it, because she knows what its like to be in Lindsay's position, and she was her in S5. And now she's joking about it? Leyton never ceases to dissapoint.
Luke said NOTHING back but "it's ok. I know I hurt you before --" "I love you". Yeah, really, nice talk. It was basically one sided! Leyton did the same thing. Like I mentioned before, Luke explained the reason for his behavior in 518. Do I need to retype the dialogue??? Then Peyton kindly summed up Luke's stupidity in 601 @ the airport but also said she loved him all the same. Brucas didn't talk much more when they made up in 309 than leyton did in 601.
Lucas didnt say anything back because it was Brooke's issue. He understood that. It was Brooke's place to come and talk not Lucas's. And they had already talked about it earlier in that episode. AND again! Lucas or Brooke were not in LOVE with other people and were NOT about to get married. There is a huge difference. And when Brooke gives him the speech he knows that what he did to her in S1 was the reason why she acted that way, and he understood that and he said "I know I hurt you but Im the guys for you." And they talked about this issue further more when they Brooke says "I dont know why its so easy for me to get naked one way and not the other way" and Lucas says " I know, I hurt you pretty bad and Im not going to do it again." And then they gave each other letters. They talked. They talked more than Leyton did. And their talks were not "stagnant." They were able to talk through their issues and move past them. Unlike Leyton who have yet to talk about any of their issues. And please dont bring up the insecurities, because it was clear that Brooke moved past them since she let Lucas and Peyton do the "I love you" scene for Naley's rehersal. And it was only after Peyton told her that she had feeling for her boyfriend, that he insecurities returned.
See, that's your problem. You see "understanding leyton" as "liking" them. I never told you to like them. Man. I am able to understand where Brucas is coming from, but you refuse to even see leyton from an objective point of view. You're all about the hate rants. There are many brucas fans i've talked to who see Leyton in a new light or even in a slightly positive light but they still can't stand them as a couple. They just understand them more. It doesn't make them any less of brucas fans.
I will never understand Leyton, which causes me to despise them. Their whole "epic love story" is really stupid to me.
but you refuse to even see leyton from an objective point of view. I'd like it if you dont make assumptions. I tried understanding them I really did. Where they're coming from and all, but they still dont make sense to me. Lucas and Peyton, both fell in love with people that IMP were better for them. Jake for Peyton, Brooke for Lucas. The basis of Leyton relationship in cheating, IMO. I will never understand why they cheat every time to get together. If they have loved each other since the pilot why did they allow themselves to be in other relationship. Better relationship. Where they not only professed their love, but waited and fought for them(Jake and Brooke.)And I will never understand that they were in denial and hiding their hearts. They were hiding for 5 seasons? It doesn't make sense and honestly there was no need for it, I know it brought in drama but it also assasinated LP for me too.
And your talking as if you talk about Brucas positivly, but you're doing exactly what Im doing. So I dont get why me not understanding is a problem.
I am well aware that some LPers are frustrated that LP haven't talked further. Just like BLers are frustrated on how BL were able to end things so simply in 408. Fans from BOTH camps are always gonna have issues with the way things are written on behalf of their fav couples - that's just the way it is. It doesn't make others crazy if they understand and approve of the way things are going. We all see things from different perspectives.
BLers were frustrated because our couple broke up! LP just got together and LPers are not only frustrated but switching ships(2 LPers and counting)
You keep blaming peyton. You need to re-read what I've written before time and time again. It's not just Brooke's general insecurities, it's Luke who kept giving her reasons to worry. Did Peyton make luke write those love letters to her all those years ago? Did Peyton make luke write a love letter to brooke in which he repeat the same words he used on Peyton??? Did Peyton tell Luke to choose to help her over Brooke in 310? Did Peyton tell Luke to push Brooke away time and time again? Common! Luke played a big part in Brooke's insecurities. You can't ONLY use Leyton's past in s1; there's more to it.
The letter thing was the one thing, and they talked it out. And I dont really think that is Lucas treating her badly.
And Brooke let Lucas go with Peyton. Yeah she was worried about it and what happened with them in the past, but she let them go that was a huge moment for BL. Also Lucas never pushed Brooke away? He needed some time after Keith's death which till s6 bothers him alot. And even then they talked about it and why he needed time at Naley's wedding.
Um, Brooke knew about Luke's HCM and not playing basketball once he came out to EVERYONE about it. I don't recall one scene where Luke actually told Brooke about his HCM/or frustrations about not playing anymore.
So if we didnt see it, how do you know he didnt tell her before he came out to everyone? All Im saying is that people make it sound like Brooke was clueless about what was going on in Lucas's life and that Lucas hides from her. She knew about everything in his life and he never hid from her. So basically what Im trying to say I dont understand how people say he let Peyton in more than he let Brooke in?
And also we never had a scene where Lucas tells her about rescuing Dan but we know he tells her since she says "You told me you rescued Dan..."
He hid the kiss from her. He hid his HCM from her - like I said, Brooke knew, once everyone else knew. And again, like I already said, 317 is when Luke let Peyton in. You need to read my comments carefully cause I'm finding that you're asking me the same questions or asking questions I've already answered.
You keep saying the same things aswell, if I have repeated my self then dont answer again. I wouldnt want you repeating yourself. You obviously didnt make it as clear if Im asking the same question.
I already explained why he hid the kiss and we dont know if he hid it from her. We have to assume that he told her because she knew about it when they were talking about it in 401. Even at Naley's wedding she knew you have to assume she knew, because she doesnt say why didnt you tell me about your HCM, she says "why didnt you call me when you were away" and "why didnt you tell me about the kiss" And I already explained why Lucas did what he did.
saBRUCAS, it's not just about not agreeing on things, it's that you re-ask questions I've already answered. You don't address my answers, you just often ask the same questions or make repeated claims that i've addressed - you restating claims I've already addressed just makes it look like you have no counterargument.
All BL vs LP debates are the same and have alot of repeating so just dont debate. Every time I say something you say Im repeating my self when it's a response to what you've said in the first place. When ever I state something yo come and start debating with me and accuse me of repeating. You should know by now that BL vs LP debates ultimately come down to the same thing. And in the end its all about opinions.
You guys keep forgetting that despite his mistake of leaving her, he DID try to rectify his mistake. He CALLED her to come to his book signing. He wanted to sort things out. But the misunderstanding at the book signing led peyton to believe Lundsey were together and led luke to believe that Peyton didn't care to show up and work on their relationship.
So it was a mistake nonetheless. Otherwise he wouldnt have tried to fix it. Now before you say Im repeating myself, you asked me the samething again and this is a response to something YOU keep repeating. And its going to be the same response everytime...so...
Ok, Mistake number 2 and 3 are the same mistake. He went back to be with Lindsey (proposal or not, he cheated then pretended it didn't happen so he could continue to hide with lindsey). You splitting it into two is unrealistic IMO.
They are not the same mistakes. are you kidding me?
Just because they happened in the same eppisode doesnt make them ONE mistake.
2)He kissed her back when he knew he was not going to be with her. He lead her on.
3)He went home, and he didnt have to propose, especially since Peyton just told him that she loves him. And he still proposed to Lindsay!
Its not just about the cheating. Cheating was one mistake and proposing was the other. I dont know how to make it clearer.
You call those 2 huge mistakes the "same mistake?"
saBRUCAS stick to one argument. You keep tangenting and it's very annoying, lol! ok, first off, I never said I LIKED what Luke said to Peyton, I said I wasn't mad at him for it. He was expressing his frustration and he could have been really mean about it but he was just being sarcastic. again, whatever! Second of all, I cannot believe you would think Peyton deserved to have her mothers' deaths made fun of. No offense, but how old are you? That's low. Really low. Brooke didn't have to stoop to such a level because she was angry at Peyton. Third, I said Leyton talked it out in 507, so why are you bringing up 506??? By the way, yeah, Peyton threw books at lucas but they still talked it out - intensely...remind you of say, I dunno, 313??? When Brooke hit luke with a flashlight and ran off hysterically into the rain demanding him to profess why he wanted to be with her? You keep taking jabs at moments leyton had but you need to remember brucas had similar moments!
Iam sticking to one argument.
I said what he said to her was disrespectful! remember how the argument started how he treats Peyton worse? Yeah so I am sticking to one argument. I dont give a damn about her character but all Im saying is that IF that was Brooke in Peyton's position I would be pretty pissed at Lucas. And totally see that as him being disrespectful.
First of all dont worry about my age. Why cant some people accept the fact that some people HATE Peyton. And I really dont care what happens to her. I dont find those things offensive. What Peyton did was horrible and Brooke made some comments out of anger. Ever heard of actions speak louder than words? anyways going back to the argument.
How did Leyton talk about it? All I remember is Lucas saying you gave up on us and Peyotn throwing the books and saying by not waiting you gave up on us (When really Peyton didnt wait either, she fell in love with someone else, great couple LP is) and Lucas leaving. Where as in Brucas, Brooke left Lucas ran after her, they talked about it and Lucas professed his love for her and it let to an amazing scene. And lets see Brucas were 16/17? and LP acted like 13/14 when they were 22...yep pretty similar. Brucas acted maturely and discussed everything even when they were in highschool and LP well...they still havent talked and are about to get married.
Um, lemme see, all the time they said they were friends??? Yeah, they were awkward, cause they were in LOVE. but that's besides the point. They tried to be friends and at times they were able to have conversations with eachother. They were even occasionally able to open up to one another despite the awkwardness - they were still THERE for eachother DESPITE the awkwardness, that's what real friends are for.
You said they were able to be friends in your previous post. And now youre saying they "tried to be friends"? exactly key word tried and only Lucas tried. He tried to make Peyton and Lindsay friends and he tried to talk to her. And when ever they talked, they were either fighting or Lucas was talking about Lindsay. So all in al they were NOT friends in S5.
Brooke and Lucas were friends in S5. They were able to talk about everything. Whenever either of them a problem they went to talk to each other.
Because Peyton voiced that she let him go. She told him to be Happy. She still wanted to be his friend and so he was free to open up to her about his life - which at the time, included Lindsey.
Well thats rude...talking to someone who you know loves you about how much you love someone else.
You keep repeating yourself! lol, it's really frustrating. Our debates often go in circles cause you state things I've already addressed, but you avoid replying with a counterargument. Again, what DAMAGE did Peyton inflict? If Lindsey knew about the kiss in 507 or if Luke ended up going back to Peyton after the kiss, I'd see your point and wouldn't be able to deny the damage peyton would have inflicted. but Lindsey never knew about the kiss, so it's just considered a stupid move, not damage, cause Luke still chose lindsey! Luke was the one who made Lindsey uneasy when she saw his car at peyton's office in 506. Or when she saw Luke following Peyton around at Tric. Or when she read the SECOND book Luke wrote about Peyton. It was LUCAS. Peyton did NOTHING to make Lindsey run away - Lindsey was even gracious enough to let Peyton know that she didn't blame her - cause she could have said "yes" at the altar.
OMG! you break my one post into 10 sections and then repeat yourself and tell me that Im repeating my self? Thats frustrating!
Its a debate stop telling me that Im repeating my self if have an answer just aswer it if you dont then stop complaining.
You said in your previous 2 post that and I qoute "Peyton even tried helping the guy get Lindsay back"
My response to that will stay the same. Its like somehow you expect me to change my response to the same thing youve been saying. And Im going to say the same thing again, which is Peyton "tries" after damaging. It does not work that way. She kissed Lucas, broke Brucas up and then "tired" to help Lucas get Brooke back by questioning his love for her. She kissed Lucas again when he was with Lindsay and then "tried" to Lucas get Lindsay back. Yeah the kiss didnt break them up but Peyton made sure Lindsay knew that she still loved Lucas by saying "I hate her" and saying "Lucas proposed to me with the same ring first" directly to her.
Do you realize that Haley didn't see Peyton after she got attacked by Psycho Derek? BOTH times? Do you realize that we never actually saw Nate embracing his family after the Nanny Carrie attack? There's only so much screentime - just cause we didn't see a scene, it doesn't mean the characters don't care or worry for one another. Remember all the good we got to see Peyton's do despite her PAIN in s5 - she was there for skillz, brooke, haley, mia, molly, LUKE, Nate! She made a difference in their lives.
You're fogetting one: Lindsay!
She made the biggest difference in Lindsay's life! God what a great character.
Leyton is selfish in that when Brooke got attcked she couldnt feel like she could talk to Peyton bacause she was so happy and wrapped up in her life with Lucas. They are selfish in that they hurt Lindsay. Lindsay loved Lucas just as much or probablly more than Peyton and now they are joking about it. Lucas saying I made the worng choice...and Peyton laughing. Thats disrespectfull to Lindsay.
And I wouldnt say Peyton made a difference in their lives. How did she do that?
If it wasnt for Brooke, Peyton wouldnt be able to do much...so thanks to Brooke.
And she had like one scene with Nathan and one scene with Skillz so I dont know how she could have made a difference in their lives.
You're mixing up "they've hurt people" for "they don't care who they hurt". If they didn't care, they wouldn't have broken up in s1 for Brooke. Peyton wouldn't have bore away her feelings for Luke for so long (s2-3/4), Peyton wouldn't have let Luke go in 508. Peyton wouldn't have tried to convince lindsey to take luke back. I'm not saying Leyton haven't been selfish in the past (cheating x2), I'm saying that they've made more selfLESS moves than selfISH.
Im trying to say they hurt people AND they dont care who they hurt.
If they really cared they NEVER would have started sneaking around. And it would be undstandable if they if they did it just once but they kept doing it for most of S1 and then did it again in S3 and did it again in S5. If they really did care they would learn from their mistakes, and seeing how much they hurt Brooke they wouldnt do it to Brooke again and to Lindsay in S5.
Yeah they broke up, but that was after Brooke found out. That was just dumb on their part. Brooke was already hurt and was not talking to either of them that was the perfect chance for them to be together and the passed on that, only to cheat again in S3. What an epic couple!
I would really like to see when they have been selfless together. I know Lucas does alot for people and Peyton has done a few things too, especially for Jake, but when they're together they dont care,and they dont care who they hurt in the process of getting together. After hurting someone and THEN trying to help them does not count as them being selfless.
I think we both made ourselves pretty clear and I think in the end it only comes down to one thing, so I guess we should get back to the original question. LPers are pretty pathetic for prentending to be BLers IMO. lol.
And it wasnt like Brooke broke up with Felix one second and got with Lucas another. She broke up on her own terms. It wasn't like that with Leyton either. When Lindsey broke up with Lucas and wouldn't take him back, he needed time to think. It wasn't till 6 episodes later (which was over a month if you add up the 2 weeks Luke left on the cruise with his drunken & lonely fest which lasted for weeks, with the rest of the episodes before & in between) that leyton even seemed to stand a chance. Peyton waited just like Luke waited for Brooke. That's all I'm saying.
Peyton waited and let Lucas go? Why do LP fans think Lucas was hers to let go of in the first place? And when did she wait? It was more like she gave up for one day and then the next she was back on the river court drawing a comet trying to get him back. Or helping him when he was drunk and kissing him and saying I never meant to hurt you? I never said Luke was Peyton's to let go. I said she let go of him. as in she wouldn't try and get him back anymore. She wouldn't interfere in his life anymore. and saBRUCAS, you know it wasn't one day her letting him go, then the other her drawing on the river court. Common! I shouldn't have to explain simple facts like that - it's between 508 (letting luke go) and the season finale (518) that's TEN episodes. Which is a few months at least(when you go by OTH time)...517, peyton was just being a friend. She was coming home from work and saw luke passed out. She took him home like any friend would have. and that kiss was totally innocent. moreover, she never said "I never meant to hurt you". She said "I never wanted this for you" as in she was sad that he was hurting. That's all! That had nothing to do with her relationship with luke. It wasn't like she was fighting for him while he was sleeping.
Brucas talk because they fight? Thats funny were they fighting when they talked about the 82 letters, were they fight when they talked about Lucas and Keith, were they fighting when they talked about rescuing each other? OMG saBRUCAS, I'm honestly sick of debating with you cause you constantly misunderstand me. Scroll back up. Did I say AT ALL that Brucas ONLY talk because they fight? That's quite the absolute statement. I said they often talked about their issues because they were fighting...There's a difference. I'm not so ignorant as to say Brucas ALWAYS fought when they've had talks. I'm well aware that brucas have had meaningful conversations outside of fighting - heck i've iterated that within my arguments in different debates! They just didn't have many meaningful convos outside of fighting.
she knows what its like to be in Lindsay's position, and she was her in S5. And now she's joking about it? It's not like Peyton was making fun of what lindsey had to go through. Luke started it when he said he "made a big mistake and was calling lindsey". What did you want Peyton to do??? Get angry? Then you probably would have said that "Peyton DOES have insecurities about season 5 and leyton should talk". It's like NOTHING peyton does is gonna please you. Even her good actions are manipulative or unsubstantiated to you...
Lucas didnt say anything back because it was Brooke's issue. He understood that. It was Brooke's place to come and talk not Lucas's. I'm talking about Brucas discussing the crap LUKE pulled. I know brooke talked. Just like Leyton talked (502)...and talked(506)...and talked (507/508/518)...and I don't care that brucas weren't in love with different people. the point is one couple talking about their issues in comparison with the other. Issues are issues! both couples talked about them! and both could have gone deeper into them. and don't ask me "when did Leyton talk" again cause i JUST listed the episodes above. You often "forget" what I say and move onto another argument without responding to MY responses.
And their talks were not "stagnant." They were able to talk through their issues and move past them. They "moved" past them? Is that why they were still arguing throughout the season through to the season finale? and arguing some more in season 4? and you keep flipping back and forth! First you say Brucas' problems in s3 were peyton's fault (because of season 1) and now you're saying brucas moved past them??? Where do you stand???
And it was only after Peyton told her that she had feeling for her boyfriend, that he insecurities returned. Have I been typing to myself??? I've already told you about brooke's insecurities throughout the season. but I guess I'll LIST them again cause apparently I've been talking to myself during our long drawn out circular debates - 310 ("is lucas on his way back?" - haley "he's with his other girlfriend" - Brooke); 313 (Luke's faulty love letter with Peyton); 314, 317 ("the boy I love saved the girl I love, and it's the girl that he loves too. We both know it's true"). THERE. I said it again.
The basis of Leyton relationship in cheating the basis of leyton's relationship was not cheating - not even in season 1. They wanted eachother BEFORE they were with different people. BEFORE lucas was with Brooke/lindsey, Leyton wanted eachother, but Peyton was afraid of taking a new step both times (being in a relationship in s1/getting married between s4&5). Each time Peyton eventually fessed up and took a leap of faith, Lucas was hiding with someone new (Brooke s1/lindsey s5). Leyton made a mistake @ the motel/@tric - they were in love and they were overwhelmed with emotion. With s1, Peyton tried to walk away but then luke was idiotic enough to pursue Peyton while he was STILL with Brooke. He kept trying to break up with Brooke but the "time" was just never right. Leyton waited for the right time to tell brooke till it blew up in their face. I know that was a mistake, so you don't have to reiterate that. They were young and in love, and circumstances got in the way - not to mention they got in their own way. Season 5 was a whole new déja vu with the whole cheating thing, only this time it wasn't an ongoing affair - luke hid from his feelings in fear of getting hurt again. again, Leyton's feelings got the best of them and they gave into eachother for a moment in 507. but then luke snapped out of it and hid with lindsey. I know you don't see leyton passed the cheating but understand their similar problem of hiding their heart - especially lucas. I actually wrote an article about luke's psyche vs his relationship problems (link). If Leyton's s4/6 reunions were based on their cheating in s1/5, I'd see where you were coming from. but their cheating never landed them together - they always ended up with different people after the cheating (peyton with Jake, luke with brooke/lindsey). Leyton found their way to eachother the right way when they made things official in s4/6. Notice that they got support from their loved ones during both their reunions. Everything seems balanced on the show when leyton are official ("the world's been waiting on you two since highschool").
And I will never understand that they were in denial and hiding their hearts. Peyton and Lucas' hard childhoods (Peyton losing her mom/Luke being abandoned by his father) caused their emotional problems as teenagers/adults. I know. I suffer from the same problem (hiding my heart) and I work on it everyday.
And your talking as if you talk about Brucas positivly, but you're doing exactly what Im doing. So I dont get why me not understanding is a problem. I talk about brucas objectively. I don't insult them every other second. I state facts to back up my claims, but you often take cheap shots and tear leyton down within your arguments. I don't know you if you realize that. That's why a lot of LP fans just don't like debating with you. They get sick of your comments. I'm not saying you always do it, but you do it all too often.
BLers were frustrated because our couple broke up! LP just got together and LPers are not only frustrated but switching ships(2 LPers and counting) BLers were frustrated BEFORE the breakup. they were wondering where the 322 breakdown came from! They thought BL were doing so well. They didn't understand Brooke's devastation. Heck YOU don't even understand it. and so what if 2 LPers switched? I've noticed at least 3 BLers who have switched sides since 601 - others have even switched since season 5 because she realized how incredible leyton's love was..."and counting"...it happens all the time. It doesn't take away from one couple or the other.
And I dont really think that is Lucas treating her badly. I never said the letter situation was an EXAMPLE of him treating her badly. Heck I never said that Luke flat out treated Brooke like crap while he was actually dating her (I said he pulled a lot of crap while he was dating her). It was when you said Luke treated Peyton like crap in s5 that I brought up what Luke did to Brooke in s3 BEFORE & during their reunion in s3.
And Brooke let Lucas go with Peyton. Yeah she was worried about it and what happened with them in the past, but she let them go that was a huge moment for BL Uh, why do you think brooke said "for ONCE, can you put ME above your PRECIOUS PEYTON and do what I ASK? THANKS!" 310, along with the other crap luke pulled throughout the season, caused brooke to say what she said.
Also Lucas never pushed Brooke away? He needed some time after Keith's death which till s6 bothers him alot. And even then they talked about it and why he needed time at Naley's wedding. Once again, you're repeating yourself without addressing my answer. I've responded to this before. It's like you don't even read what I say. AGAIN, do you think Brooke is completely nuts for saying "Why did you call when you were away & won't you ever just let me all the way in?" It wasn't just about Luke pushing her away in 317 and 320. It was about him not genuinely letting her all the way in. "Brooke gave you her heart, you should give yours back." Why is it that Luke never disputed that with a snappy comeback like say "I DID give my whole heart to Brooke."? Luke KNEW in his heart that Peyton was right.
they talked about it and why he needed time at Naley's wedding Yeah, but that didn't sort things out. Brooke still dumped the guy because "It shouldn't be like this, Luke" - Brooke.
You know what song played while brucas had their last dance? You know what lyrics were sung during their last kiss? "You don't know me and you don't even care." Mark Schwahn even said that certain lyrics are put in important moments to depict/describe the significance of the scene. Nuff said.
So if we didnt see it, how do you know he didnt tell her before he came out to everyone? All Im saying is that people make it sound like Brooke was clueless about what was going on in Lucas's life and that Lucas hides from her. If luke told Brooke before everyone, that would have been shown to us. Brooke would have hassled Luke about playing basketball with his heart condition. but she seemed happy & enthusiastic when he was about to play for the first time since keith died. Karen was the first person Luke told and I'm sure he eventually told Brooke but there were no scenes that they had together that showed Luke opening up about his heart condition or basketball. This was apart of the reason why Brooke said what she said in 322/401. But only a PART. I already mentioned the other reasons above so I won't repeat myself yet again...and I never said brooke was clueless about what was going on in luke's life - she was just never the first to know. But there were a number of occasions that Peyton was the first to know about stuff going on in luke's life...
we know he tells her since she says "You told me you rescued Dan..." just curious, what episode was that?
You keep saying the same things as well, if I have repeated my self then dont answer again. I wouldnt want you repeating yourself. You obviously didnt make it as clear if Im asking the same question. No. If I wasn't clear, then address my response and let me know what you don't understand. Don't restate things as if I've never answered them at all. Then I won't feel like I have to repeat myself.
Just because they happened in the same eppisode doesnt make them ONE mistake. That's not what brought me to say it was ONE mistake. and remember the original disagreement was the mistake luke made toward PEYTON. Not mistakes luke's made in the season. Don't change the argument cause you're getting off track.
He kissed her back when he knew he was not going to be with her. He lead her on. He went home, and he didnt have to propose, especially since Peyton just told him that she loves him. And he still proposed to Lindsay! You're changing what you said. You said that going back to lindsey was one mistake, and proposing was the other. Now you're saying that cheating is one mistake and proposing was the other. We were never arguing about that in the first place. Your arguments are so sporadic saBRUCAS. I know that cheating then proposing to someone else is 2 mistakes - but not 2 mistakes he made to hurt peyton - the kiss didn't hurt peyton it gave her hope. The proposal was the mistake luke made TOWARD peyton. but our original argument in this case was that you said going back to lindsey was one mistake and proposing was another. and I saw that as ONE mistake. but you know what? I'm not gonna try and convince you otherwise, cause we're gonna go back and forth. You wanna call luke's total mishaps toward peyton 3 mistakes? Fine. It still doesn't compare to the many I listed he's made on brooke's behalf. but if you wanna still say that luke's mistakes toward peyton are worse, fine. I'm done arguing about that.
Iam sticking to one argument. I said what he said to her was disrespectful! remember how the argument started how he treats Peyton worse? Yeah so I am sticking to one argument. You know why I said that you were tangenting??? Because you went on talking about Peyton deserving to have her mothers' deaths made fun of. That had NOTHING to do with this argument. It was just yet another low blow toward Peyton.
First of all dont worry about my age. Why cant some people accept the fact that some people HATE Peyton It's fine if you don't like peyton, but 90% of your reasoning is based on twisted logic. That's all. but we won't continue on that note cause that's a whole other debate.
What Peyton did was horrible and Brooke made some comments out of anger. Peyton telling the truth was horrible? The "truth" that everyone was so mad that leyton didn't tell in s1? All Peyton was trying to do was avoid making the same mistakes she made in s1 and she got nailed for it. She didn't try to steal lucas, and she didn't cheat. She told the truth. and you see that as a good reason for brooke to make fun of peyton's dead parents & insult her every other second? Whatever, heh. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.
How did Leyton talk about it? All I remember is Lucas saying you gave up on us and Peyotn throwing the books and saying by not waiting you gave up on us (When really Peyton didnt wait either, she fell in love with someone else, great couple LP is) and Lucas leaving. If that's all you remember Leyton saying, then watch s5 again. I'm not gonna type all the dialogue from 502, 506, 507, & 518. They DID talk. And are you forgetting that after leyton broke up in L.A, that they waited a YEAR before they started seeing other people (and that was only cause luke thought peyton didn't bother to show up @ the signing and because peyton thought luke had moved on with someone else)??? and remember this: Brucas talked about issues they had when they DATED in s1. and all their talks consisted of were luke promising to never hurt her again and repeating how much he loves brooke and wants to be with her. They never even went into the WHY. WHY did luke cheat? Was he in love? Was it him being a pig, or did it mean more? That's part of what kept brooke insecure for all of s3. She knew that Leyton's affair went deeper than Lucas was willing to admit. Leyton never HAD issues as a couple to talk about - their relationship was so solid in s4. If they had issues to talk about in highschool, I'm sure they would have (they had conversations about EVERYTHING else left right and center, so whatever). Yes, Brooke talked to luke about the stuff with CK, but as I've already said, luke didn't say anything about the stuff he pulled (jail, name calling, etc.). He could have at least apologized. Again, I'll admit that I wouldn't mind if Leyton went more into what happened in s5 (even though they talked about it in 518). but WITHIN s5, leyton talked about WHAT WENT WRONG in the first place, and that was very important - you need to acknowledge that.
they still havent talked and are about to get married. What is it that you'd like them to say? It hurt Peyton that luke chose lindsey. Uh, I'm sure he knows that it hurt her, but he was in love with lindsey - and peyton had her chance before. Let's see...Luke fell in love with someone else and tried to move on by lying to his heart - uh, Peyton knew that after she read his book. and luke later admitted that his book was indeed about her. Should Luke apologize for almost marrying someone else? NO. He proposed to Peyton who wasn't ready - he called her to come to his book signing to work things out - he thought she didn't show, so he MOVED ON. I never blamed him for that. I blamed him for kissing peyton then proposing to lindsey. Anyway like I said I'm not gonna dispute that I wouldn't mind if leyton delved more into s5, but they know eachother so well so Peyton knows why luke did what he did (he explained it like I said) and it's not causing a strain on their relationship (like it did with brucas). They're stronger than ever.
You said they were able to be friends in your previous post. And now youre saying they "tried to be friends"? exactly key word tried and only Lucas tried. He tried to make Peyton and Lindsay friends and he tried to talk to her. And when ever they talked, they were either fighting or Lucas was talking about Lindsay. So all in al they were NOT friends in S5. I said that because they were friends before and after the kiss. The "tried" part is because they were still in love with eachother, so it was hard being friends. But either way, they were there for eachother and helped eachother - that's what friends do. I don't care if you don't agree - it's not relevant to the debate anyhow.
Well thats rude...talking to someone who you know loves you about how much you love someone else. If you see it as rude, fine. but they were FRIENDS. So Lucas felt like he was able to talk to Peyton as a friend. This was an example of peyton being selfless: Peyton listened, without so much as a grimace of pain. She genuinely hoped Lucas would be happy - which at the time, meant she was hoping Lundsey reunited no matter how much it hurt her - that's why she went to see lindsey to help luke out. Personally, I think luke was retardedly delusional - not rude, lol.
I already explained why he hid the kiss and we dont know if he hid it from her are you confused? Ofcourse we know he hid it from her. He thought she found out from Peyton: "peyton just told me some things about you two" - Brooke. So Luke started trying to explain the reason for the kiss, and Brooke was like "what kiss? you kissed peyton again???" Or are you talking about the HCM? Cause again, I know we could all assume Luke told Brooke at some point - heck he quit basketball and left town with his mother so it would be a little shady if he didn't tell her by then.
All BL vs LP debates are the same and have alot of repeating so just dont debate No. I have had some amazing debates with great brucas fans right here on fanpop - like realluvalways, ekachan, bratty and more...We don't repeat ourselves. We state our claims, clearly respond to the other's claims and if it goes back and forth it's because we have more to explore on the matter. The difference with you is that you RESTATE things like I haven't responded before. You don't respond to my responses. THAT'S the difference and THAT'S what's so frustrating for me. That's why this debate just isn't flowing...
So it was a mistake nonetheless. Otherwise he wouldnt have tried to fix it. Now before you say Im repeating myself, you asked me the samething again and this is a response to something YOU keep repeating. And its going to be the same response everytime...so... This isn't a repetition. So don't worry, heh. What matters to me is that Luke tried to rectify the mistake. What precedence does this mistake have if Luke tried to rectify it? Why is it that you don't have a problem forgetting brooke's mistakes when she rectifies them but you seem to cling onto luke or peyton's when they try to rectify them?
Now before you say Im repeating myself, you asked me the samething again and this is a response to something YOU keep repeating I only respond in repetition when YOU repeat yourself! Before you write back this time with your thoughts - SEE if I've already responded to some.
Peyton made sure Lindsay knew that she still loved Lucas by saying "I hate her" and saying "Lucas proposed to me with the same ring first" directly to her. She "made sure lindsey knew"? Lindsey was the one who started it with the whole Lucas thing (509). Anyway, Peyton took those words back for Lindsey's sake. So since Peyton never saw the ring, Lindsey assumed Peyton told the truth when she took her words back - so no harm done in that area. and Peyton never said "I hate her". Common! I dunno why you keep twisting or amplifying situations. If you're gonna use an example, please get your facts straight. She said "I don't like her" - and she made up for that again in 509.
You said in your previous 2 post that and I qoute "Peyton even tried helping the guy get Lindsay back" My response to that will stay the same See, this is your problem. You didn't even notice that I responded to your response of "peyton tried to fix things after she did the damage" or whatever. The point is, Peyton never broke lundsey up. Her actions did not cause Lundsey relational problems, nor did it cause them to break up - and lindsey never blamed Peyton for the wedding mishap. It was LUCAS. I'm not condoning peyton's actions in s5 - she was less than gracious BEFORE episode 8/9, but she did do a LOT of things to make a mends for her mistakes. That's what good people do. Think about it - every person in the cast [including BROOKE] has done damage, and has made the effort to make a mends afterwards. THAT'S what counts.
You're fogetting one: Lindsay! She made the biggest difference in Lindsay's life! God what a great character. Yes, Lindsey. She tried to help Lindsey. Again, Peyton never caused Lundsey to break up. Yes Peyton and Lindsey butted heads, but none of Peyton's actions directly caused problems for Lundsey. Whenever Lundsey fought, it was because of Luke's actions, not Peyton's. By the end of 509, Peyton and Lindsey called a truce and Lundsey were fine to be together. It was Lindsey's discovery about Luke's book that really ruined things. It was LUKE'S actions that caused the "damage", not peyton's.
Leyton is selfish in that when Brooke got attcked she couldnt feel like she could talk to Peyton bacause she was so happy and wrapped up in her life with Lucas. You seriously blame peyton for everything! Brooke was trying to be selfless in keeping the attack to herself. She saw how miserable peyton was in s5, and seeing her happy in s6 made her hesitate to ruin it in any way. That's all. Peyton already knew something was wrong - even over the phone all the way from L.A. And she hesitated to move out when she suspected something was wrong. and she eventually got it out of brooke and was there for her 100%, so don't even. You're so quick to judge leyton being happy, but you didn't seem to mind when Brooke was wrapped up in her insecurities about leyton after Peyton had just gotten shot. So PEYTON had to comfort Brooke about her insecurities ("You're really something. I get shot and you need the comforting." - Peyton). Your strong dislike for peyton/leyton really clouds your arguments.
they dont care who they hurt. I already responded to that. They literally VOICED their guilt about s1 time and time again. I'm not gonna repeat myself again.
If they really cared they NEVER would have started sneaking around. And it would be undstandable if they if they did it just once but they kept doing it for most of S1 They slipped up in the motel at the END of 1.12. They snuck around in 113, Luke was in a COMA for 114, and by 115 Luke broke up with Brooke, but I'd still consider 115 sneaking around since they still hadn't told Brooke. There's no dispute there. But for you to say they snuk around for most season 1 is totally false.
and then did it again in S3 are you kidding me? Many brucas fans have come to terms with the library kiss. If you still considered it cheating, I dunno what to tell you. Guess we'll leave it at that. All I'll say, is if Leyton didn't care about who they hurt, they wouldn't have ended things in s1. Luke wouldn't have hid the library kiss from brooke - and peyton would have tried to steal luke after she realized she was still in love with him, instead of letting brucas walk their path and end things on their own terms (408). Nuff said.
Yeah they broke up, but that was after Brooke found out. Watch it again. Peyton broke up with luke before she even knew brooke found out. Nuff said!
I would really like to see when they have been selfless together Let's see...Peyton burying her feelings for luke for two seasons (s2/3)! She was able to bury her feelings in season 1 for a while cause she saw that brooke was happy, but as we all know, Leyton slipped up. Season 4 - peyton let brucas walk their journey before she said ONE word to Luke about her feelings (401-408). Forget the mistakes for a second, because you wanted examples of being selfless, so I gave them to you. The evidence is there, and that will never change. Everyone's selfish once and a while. I mean, don't get me started on Brooke's adventures in that area...
After hurting someone and THEN trying to help them does not count as them being selfless. Sure it does. Everyone in the cast, has made big mistakes then tried to make a mends. EVERYONE. Because that's what humans do. People hurt one another everyday and try to make a mends. So who are you to judge?
To avoid going around in circles, please read my comments carefully before you respond (to avoid repeating things you've said in the past unless it's relevant). It's fine to respond to one another back and forth as long as we're exploring different angles of an aspect. But to repeat statements without addressing the answer given is a waste of time.
and by the way, I wasn't happy about the whole thing with LPers pretending to be BLers either. At least it wasn't many LPers. In fact 61% of us (and that's only out of the 58 people who voted on here) weren't even apart of it.
Btw Abs, this line "You told me you rescued Dan..." is when BL were lying down on the bed and she was saying that since he rescued Dan & Peyton, she wanted him to rescue her too, or however she said it.
but all you wrote is great!!!
props for everyone...except sabrucas!
I wasn't equalizing lundsey and brelix's relationship. I was using brelix as an example of someone waiting for the other. Lucas waited for brooke, just like Peyton waited for Lucas. For all Lucas knew, Brelix could have gotten serious, but that's irrelevant. He waited nonetheless.
We were talking about them talking about their issues. And thats why I said...Brooke and Felix were NOT serious, they never said ILY to each other...they were not close! So what Im trying to say is Brooke and Felix are not good examples. OK?
Lucas and Lindsey were in love! they were engaged, Lucas said "I do" to her. They were very serious!
Seroiusly stop trying to blame me for repeating my self, IF I repeat myself simply dont reply to that. And you are welcome to stop any time. Im not forcing you to keep ansering my "repeated" thoughts. You're acting like you HAVE to reply back to my post. Which are only responses to your posts so seriously stop playing the blame game!!!!Its getting really annoying! you might wanna read your posts before telling me I'm repeating my self.
It wasn't like that with Leyton either. When Lindsey broke up with Lucas and wouldn't take him back, he needed time to think. It wasn't till 6 episodes later (which was over a month if you add up the 2 weeks Luke left on the cruise with his drunken & lonely fest which lasted for weeks, with the rest of the episodes before & in between) that leyton even seemed to stand a chance. Peyton waited just like Luke waited for Brooke. That's all I'm saying.
Yes it was! Lucas pined for her till the last episode to S5. Lucas was still confused on who he wanted till 601. And he cried in 518 when she was leaving. So it was like that! We didnt know he was over her till he called Peyton!!!
I never said Luke was Peyton's to let go. I said she let go of him. as in she wouldn't try and get him back anymore. She wouldn't interfere in his life anymore. and saBRUCAS, you know it wasn't one day her letting him go, then the other her drawing on the river court. Common! I shouldn't have to explain simple facts like that - it's between 508 (letting luke go) and the season finale (518) that's TEN episodes. Which is a few months at least(when you go by OTH time)...517, peyton was just being a friend. She was coming home from work and saw luke passed out. She took him home like any friend would have. and that kiss was totally innocent. moreover, she never said "I never meant to hurt you". She said "I never wanted this for you" as in she was sad that he was hurting. That's all! That had nothing to do with her relationship with luke. It wasn't like she was fighting for him while he was sleeping.
Peyton said that she was going to sacrifise and let go of him like Keith did. But she didnt really do that did she? If she did she would have never drawn the friggin comet on the river court for the world to see.
OMG saBRUCAS, I'm honestly sick of debating with you cause you constantly misunderstand me. Scroll back up. Did I say AT ALL that Brucas ONLY talk because they fight? That's quite the absolute statement. I said they often talked about their issues because they were fighting...There's a difference. I'm not so ignorant as to say Brucas ALWAYS fought when they've had talks. I'm well aware that brucas have had meaningful conversations outside of fighting - heck i've iterated that within my arguments in different debates! They just didn't have many meaningful convos outside of fighting.
This is what you said previosly.
Brucas talked things out so often because they were often FIGHTING about it. Leyton haven't been FIGHTING about lindsey
You said Brucas talked because they were often fighting, and Leyton is not talking because they are not fighting. As if couples only talk when they are fighting. Couples talk about issues which they dont have to fight about and I listed many times when Brucas did that. So if you still didnt get it I was trying to prove that a couple doesnt not need to fight to talk about issues.
I'm well aware that brucas have had meaningful conversations outside of fighting - heck i've iterated that within my arguments in different debates! They just didn't have many meaningful convos outside of fighting
Honestly it's not hard to misunderstand you when you say things like this. Does that make any sense to you?!?
What the hell is that even suppose to mean? Brucas had many meaningful conversations outside of fighting and I have listed them before.
It's not like Peyton was making fun of what lindsey had to go through. Luke started it when he said he "made a big mistake and was calling lindsey". What did you want Peyton to do??? Get angry? Then you probably would have said that "Peyton DOES have insecurities about season 5 and leyton should talk". It's like NOTHING peyton does is gonna please you. Even her good actions are manipulative or unsubstantiated to you...
I didnt expect her to be insecure about that, nor did I want her to be. I just think Leyton after hurting so many people should have a little respect for them, instead of making them a punch line to their jokes. And especially Peyton, because she was in the exact same position last season. I just though it was selfish and rude.
Peyton really hasn't done anything to please. She has done far more worse things that easliy cancel out her few good actions...IMO
Clearly this is an opinion so you dont have to respond to this!
I'm talking about Brucas discussing the crap LUKE pulled. I know brooke talked. Just like Leyton talked (502)...and talked(506)...and talked (507/508/518)...and I don't care that brucas weren't in love with different people. the point is one couple talking about their issues in comparison with the other. Issues are issues! both couples talked about them! and both could have gone deeper into them. and don't ask me "when did Leyton talk" again cause i JUST listed the episodes above. You often "forget" what I say and move onto another argument without responding to MY responses.
I think you were talking about their reunion in 309. Lucas had already explained himself...in the S2 finale remember? "What about Peyton's stuff" "I keep that stuff to remind me how badly I screwed up things...with you. To remind my self if I ever get a second chanced I'd never let you go again." And then in 309 Brucas talk before their reunion. And Lucas explains the cheating once again.
But seriously if you dont see Leyton have bigger issues infront of them, then I dont know what to tell you. He married Lindsey, he said "I do," he did his part and was willing to spend the rest of his life with her, she walked away. When Peyton says "You're a mess Lucas Scott, but your my mess"...thats them talking about Lucas marrying Lindsey? Ok then...they're so epic!
Now you're probabally gonna say that I repeated my self but you dont seem to understand how LP needs to talk about the " I do" and their issues were not the issues Brucas had!
They "moved" past them? Is that why they were still arguing throughout the season through to the season finale? and arguing some more in season 4? and you keep flipping back and forth! First you say Brucas' problems in s3 were peyton's fault (because of season 1) and now you're saying brucas moved past them??? Where do you stand???
OMG I already so many times that they moved past their insecurities and you keep bringing this up and saying that I repeast myself.
Brooke moved past her insecurties and it was evident when Brooke let them do the ILY scene at Naley's rehersal. It was ONLY after Peyton told he about her feeling for her boyfriend that her insecurities returned. And honestly can you blame her?
They had insecurties in S3...yes! and I never went against that. But they WERE able to move past it!!!! Till Peyton decided to "be honest" with Brooke.
Have I been typing to myself??? I've already told you about brooke's insecurities throughout the season. but I guess I'll LIST them again cause apparently I've been talking to myself during our long drawn out circular debates - 310 ("is lucas on his way back?" - haley "he's with his other girlfriend" - Brooke); 313 (Luke's faulty love letter with Peyton); 314, 317 ("the boy I love saved the girl I love, and it's the girl that he loves too. We both know it's true"). THERE. I said it again.
Have I been talking to a brick wall? I said they had insecurities no one is denying that!!! BUT they were able to move past them!! So yeah Brooke was insecure but she learned to trust both Lucas and Peyton, until Peyton told her about the feelings.
The process of Leyton getting together involves cheating. Thats all Im saying. They cheated In S1, and then got together but then decided to break up, Peyton cheated in S3, broke up Jeyton and Brucas, and then got together in S4, they cheated in S5, and then got together in S6. They didnt imdiately get together after cheating but it lead to it, because it broke up the realtionships either of them was in. I wouldnt say this if they hadnt cheated in S5.
Everything seems balanced on the show when leyton are official
Thats an opinion and I completely disagree, it's only because Brooke is a good best friend that everything seems to be balanced but in my opinion everthing on the show is much better and balanced when BL, NH and JP are together.
Peyton and Lucas' hard childhoods (Peyton losing her mom/Luke being abandoned by his father) caused their emotional problems as teenagers/adults. I know. I suffer from the same problem (hiding my heart) and I work on it everyday.
Im sorry you suffer from it, but that cant be the excuse every single time they're in a diferent relationship. Brooke and Nathan had pretty brutal childhoods, but they didn't hide their hearts. It gets pretty annoying! and stops me from shipping them.
I talk about brucas objectively. I don't insult them every other second. I state facts to back up my claims, but you often take cheap shots and tear leyton down within your arguments. I don't know you if you realize that. That's why a lot of LP fans just don't like debating with you. They get sick of your comments. I'm not saying you always do it, but you do it all too often.
hahah...Seriously I dont care if they dont want to debate with me. I feel lik eyou bash Brucas, not as much as other LP fans but you do. Like in this debate there were many times where you were negative towards Brucas, but it doesnt bother me. But many LPers do bash Brucas and pretty harshly...so what? Im not going NOT debate with. Its usually those kind of LPers I want to debate with. But when ever I bash Leyton I try to back it up with evidence. There are many reasons why I dont support LP and dont like their storyline at all and I have mentioned that mulitple times and backed my argument up.
And are you kidding me with bashing LP? Seriously this whole thing "LPers pretending to be BLers" was a digg at not only BL but BLers!! Common!
Uh, why do you think brooke said "for ONCE, can you put ME above your PRECIOUS PEYTON and do what I ASK? THANKS!" 310, along with the other crap luke pulled throughout the season, caused brooke to say what she said.
That was obviously because she was mad. Mad at Peyton for having feelings for Lucas, after promising her she wouldnt do anything to hurt her. And she appologized to Lucas right then and there. Its like Peyton being mad at Lucas for going to check up on Brooke before checking up on her.
Why is it that Luke never disputed that with a snappy comeback like say "I DID give my whole heart to Brooke."?
Lucas- "I need you to believe me when I tell you my heart is with you."
Yeah, but that didn't sort things out. Brooke still dumped the guy because "It shouldn't be like this, Luke" - Brooke.
You know what song played while brucas had their last dance? You know what lyrics were sung during their last kiss? "You don't know me and you don't even care." Mark Schwahn even said that certain lyrics are put in important moments to depict/describe the significance of the scene. Nuff said.
Honetly as a Brucas fan the S4 break up was quite a shock, because there was no reason fro them to break up in my eyes...and in Lucas's eyes as well. He still doesnt know the real reason. Brooke said "I cant do this anymore." and I inertprate that as Brooke not wanting to fight with Peyton for Lucas...but thats just me.
..." just curious, what episode was that?
Leytonfan4ever explained it but it was the "rescue scene" episode 317.
No. If I wasn't clear, then address my response and let me know what you don't understand. Don't restate things as if I've never answered them at all. Then I won't feel like I have to repeat myself.
For the last time you dont have to respond to my response. Dont act like you HAVE to answer.
And can you not break my one post into like 5 billion posts? I think thats causing you to believe that Im repeating my self. You said that I have selctive reading when you read my whole post and then pick something, like a line out of that post, that we have already talked about.
That's not what brought me to say it was ONE mistake. and remember the original disagreement was the mistake luke made toward PEYTON. Not mistakes luke's made in the season. Don't change the argument cause you're getting off track.
Im NOT changning the argument. I know what they orginal disagreement was. And I was talking about Lucas's mistakes towards Peyton in S5. Re-read my post!
You're changing what you said. You said that going back to lindsey was one mistake, and proposing was the other. Now you're saying that cheating is one mistake and proposing was the other. We were never arguing about that in the first place. Your arguments are so sporadic saBRUCAS. I know that cheating then proposing to someone else is 2 mistakes - but not 2 mistakes he made to hurt peyton - the kiss didn't hurt peyton it gave her hope. The proposal was the mistake luke made TOWARD peyton. but our original argument in this case was that you said going back to lindsey was one mistake and proposing was another. and I saw that as ONE mistake. but you know what? I'm not gonna try and convince you otherwise, cause we're gonna go back and forth. You wanna call luke's total mishaps toward peyton 3 mistakes? Fine. It still doesn't compare to the many I listed he's made on brooke's behalf. but if you wanna still say that luke's mistakes toward peyton are worse, fine. I'm done arguing about that.
Agian I am NOT changing my argument. If you go back I said...mistake 1 was him leaving Peyton after proposing to her, Mistake 2 was him kissing her and giving her hope but then leaving her again and going to Lindsey. And mistake 3 was him proposing to Lindsey when he knew Peyton loved him. That one especially killed Peyton because she says "If you wanted to break my heart you could have done it many other ways...dont marry her Luke!" Or something like that. And I have stuck to this!
please go back and look at my first post.
Mistake 1: leaving Peyton
Mistake 2: Kissing Peyton...giving her hope kind of leading her and then leaving her
Mistake 3: Proposing to Lindsey.
I dont how to make it any more clearer. And before you repeat yourself and say mistake 2 and 3 are the same. They are not. Lucas kissed her back and she thought there was somehthing more and when she asked him if he still loves her he walked away. And then when she goes over to his house and finds out he is engaged to Lindsey that like a tight slap to Peyton's face IMO.
It's fine if you don't like peyton, but 90% of your reasoning is based on twisted logic. That's all. but we won't continue on that note cause that's a whole other debate.
I dont like Peyton for many reasons and call those reasons "twisted logics" isn't fair. But that is a whole another debate.
Peyton telling the truth was horrible? The "truth" that everyone was so mad that leyton didn't tell in s1? All Peyton was trying to do was avoid making the same mistakes she made in s1 and she got nailed for it. She didn't try to steal lucas, and she didn't cheat. She told the truth. and you see that as a good reason for brooke to make fun of peyton's dead parents & insult her every other second? Whatever, heh. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.
Peyton telling the truth and kissing Lucas was terrible! Like I said in previous post, the part that you skipped, actions speak louder than words. But this is a different debate also.
What is it that you'd like them to say? It hurt Peyton that luke chose lindsey. Uh, I'm sure he knows that it hurt her, but he was in love with lindsey - and peyton had her chance before. Let's see...Luke fell in love with someone else and tried to move on by lying to his heart - uh, Peyton knew that after she read his book. and luke later admitted that his book was indeed about her. Should Luke apologize for almost marrying someone else? NO. He proposed to Peyton who wasn't ready - he called her to come to his book signing to work things out - he thought she didn't show, so he MOVED ON. I never blamed him for that. I blamed him for kissing peyton then proposing to lindsey. Anyway like I said I'm not gonna dispute that I wouldn't mind if leyton delved more into s5, but they know eachother so well so Peyton knows why luke did what he did (he explained it like I said) and it's not causing a strain on their relationship (like it did with brucas). They're stronger than ever.
Since this couple is soooooo very epic I would like them to talk about why why why did Lucas say "I do" to lindsey. I know that hurt Peyton and Lucas knew that since she basically asked him not to marry her and drew on the river court and told him she still loves him, but he still went on with the wedding. Why? I would want that explained. And being in denial is seriously getting old so a real explaination of why he acted the way he did. Since you love LP your obviously fine with them but for people who like/ prefer other couples, like me, would want to see why this couple is so epic? and wont believe them unless they show them as epic.
are you confused? Ofcourse we know he hid it from her. He thought she found out from Peyton: "peyton just told me some things about you two" - Brooke. So Luke started trying to explain the reason for the kiss, and Brooke was like "what kiss? you kissed peyton again???" Or are you talking about the HCM? Cause again, I know we could all assume Luke told Brooke at some point - heck he quit basketball and left town with his mother so it would be a little shady if he didn't tell her by then.
Sorry I was talking about the HCM when I said "we dont know if he hid it from her."
And I have said that him telling her about the kiss was an accident, but the only reason he did not want to tell her was because to him that kiss meant nothing and he didnt want to hurt Brooke over nothing.
No. I have had some amazing debates with great brucas fans right here on fanpop - like realluvalways, ekachan, bratty and more...We don't repeat ourselves. We state our claims, clearly respond to the other's claims and if it goes back and forth it's because we have more to explore on the matter. The difference with you is that you RESTATE things like I haven't responded before. You don't respond to my responses. THAT'S the difference and THAT'S what's so frustrating for me. That's why this debate just isn't flowing...
I know there are amazing BL debater and the ones you mentioned are really amazing. But again you are the one who started debating with me. And if you think that Im repeating my self and if its this hard for you then stop. I am not forcing you to reply to my posts. And honestly there have been many times where you have repeated by I reply to it. There have been many times where I went to your previous post and pasted it again just to show you that I did not change my argument or that I didnt repeat my self. But if you still think so then please dont reply...its not that hard.
See, this is your problem. You didn't even notice that I responded to your response of "peyton tried to fix things after she did the damage" or whatever. The point is, Peyton never broke lundsey up. Her actions did not cause Lundsey relational problems, nor did it cause them to break up - and lindsey never blamed Peyton for the wedding mishap. It was LUCAS. I'm not condoning peyton's actions in s5 - she was less than gracious BEFORE episode 8/9, but she did do a LOT of things to make a mends for her mistakes. That's what good people do. Think about it - every person in the cast [including BROOKE] has done damage, and has made the effort to make a mends afterwards. THAT'S what counts.
My problem again? hahah
Anyways...Peyton never broke them up but she definitely caused serious problems in their relationship. She made Lindsey question Lucas's love for her.
Yeah good people do that, but after doing it once they learn from their mistakes, and Peyton doesn't.
They slipped up in the motel at the END of 1.12. They snuck around in 113, Luke was in a COMA for 114, and by 115 Luke broke up with Brooke, but I'd still consider 115 sneaking around since they still hadn't told Brooke. There's no dispute there. But for you to say they snuk around for most season 1 is totally false.
Ok yeah they did it for 5 episodes ,my bad, but my point was that...if they had done it just once,(112) I would have been fine with it but they kept doing it for 4 more episodes, and Peyton did it again in S3 and they did it again in S5. IF they cared do you think they would have done it so many times?
are you kidding me? Many brucas fans have come to terms with the library kiss. If you still considered it cheating, I dunno what to tell you. Guess we'll leave it at that. All I'll say, is if Leyton didn't care about who they hurt, they wouldn't have ended things in s1. Luke wouldn't have hid the library kiss from brooke - and peyton would have tried to steal luke after she realized she was still in love with him, instead of letting brucas walk their path and end things on their own terms (408). Nuff said.
I dont consider it as LP cheating I consider it as Peyton ambushing Lucas. So it was only her. Like you know how, when Nathan is getting his award in S4 Rachel kisses him? just like that.
Let's see...Peyton burying her feelings for luke for two seasons (s2/3)! She was able to bury her feelings in season 1 for a while cause she saw that brooke was happy, but as we all know, Leyton slipped up. Season 4 - peyton let brucas walk their journey before she said ONE word to Luke about her feelings (401-408). Forget the mistakes for a second, because you wanted examples of being selfless, so I gave them to you. The evidence is there, and that will never change. Everyone's selfish once and a while. I mean, don't get me started on Brooke's adventures in that area...
Are you kidding me? Peyton burying her feelings in S2 and S3? S2 LP didnt even interact. Peyton was busy in falling LOVE with Jake. And why would she burry her feelings for Lucas in S2 he was free that would have been a good time for her to go after him. S3...she didnt realize she had feelings for Lucas till 319 I think...? But it was towards the end of the season, so she wasnt burying her feelings. She told Brooke which cause problems in Brucas and made Brooke insecure again.
S1...Im not even going to talk about.
S4...She was burying her feelings by constantly hanging out with Lucas? Thats a great way to bury your feelings.
The only selfless in one season: S2. She stood up for Anna and was there for Jake and let him go no matter how much it hurt her. Thats being selfless putting others before yourself.
Sure it does. Everyone in the cast, has made big mistakes then tried to make a mends. EVERYONE. Because that's what humans do. People hurt one another everyday and try to make a mends. So who are you to judge?
Who am I to judge? Well you're right everyone in the cast has made mistakes but they have ALSO learned from them. A smart person learns from his/her mistakes. Peyton and Lucas dont.
Again you dont have to answer to my repeated comments, like in your post you leave out many things so why not leave the repeated comments out?
Agreed, it was stupid, just made people look immature.
How am I gonna live now?
Lucas and Lindsey were in love! they were engaged, Lucas said "I do" to her. They were very serious!
Seroiusly stop trying to blame me for repeating my self, IF I repeat myself simply dont reply to that. And you are welcome to stop any time. Im not forcing you to keep ansering my "repeated" thoughts. You're acting like you HAVE to reply back to my post. Which are only responses to your posts so seriously stop playing the blame game!!!!Its getting really annoying! you might wanna read your posts before telling me I'm repeating my self. You know what saBRUCAS, I'm sorry, but you are one of the most disorganized debaters I have ever encountered. I'm not trying to insult you. but you just don't seem to notice when you tangent in a debate. You often lose track of what we focus on. Maybe one day you'll realize what i'm talking about maybe not. but I'm just done getting frustrated.
Lucas pined for her till the last episode to S5. Lucas was still confused on who he wanted till 601. And he cried in 518 when she was leaving. So it was like that! We didnt know he was over her till he called Peyton!!! do you realize that you just proved my point? you said it yourself. luke didn't know who he wanted till the end. from 512 to 518 he didn't know who he wanted. Yes he pined after lindsey, but then still had heated moments with peyton throughout that period ((514, 516, 517), then he considered brooke all over again. He didn't flip from lindsey in 512 to peyton in 513. It was a long trifecta process. so thank-you for proving my point.
Peyton said that she was going to sacrifise and let go of him like Keith did. But she didnt really do that did she? If she did she would have never drawn the friggin comet on the river court for the world to see. She let him go be with Lindsey. but then Lundsey broke up. and still peyton waited. but then she read luke's book. the book lindsey TOLD peyton to read cause she knew leyton were meant to be together. It wasn't till 518 that peyton worked up the nerve to tell luke how she felt one more time. Peyton was free to do whatever she wanted at that point. There was nothing selfish about it.
if you still didnt get it I was trying to prove that a couple doesnt not need to fight to talk about issues. and I never said that they did. That's my point. You literally stated it as if you thought I thought differently.
Brucas had many meaningful conversations outside of fighting and I have listed them before. Wow. You misunderstood me again, lol. Did I NOT just say that? Whatever, lol. You just don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
Clearly this is an opinion so you dont have to respond to this! don't worry...I wont.
What about Peyton's stuff" "I keep that stuff to remind me how badly I screwed up things...with you. To remind my self if I ever get a second chanced I'd never let you go again." And then in 309 Brucas talk before their reunion. And Lucas explains the cheating once again. Luke's speech in 223 doesn't explain his cheating. He was just putting brooke's insecurities to rest about the stuff he kept. He never explained "why" he cheated. and 309 once again, he doesn't explain his cheating, he just says "I know I hurt you before, but --". and that's the end of it. They never go into the why - which was a vital piece missing. That's all I'm saying.
"You're a mess Lucas Scott, but your my mess"...thats them talking about Lucas marrying Lindsey? Ok then...they're so epic! That's not the only example I used to say leyton already talked a bit about s5. I also said 518 was an example. Lucas told Peyton why his behavior was so erratic. I said 502 was an example. Peyton told Luke that she WAS at the book signing, but thought Lundsey were a couple. I said 506 was an example. Now all you may have seen was "book throwing", but if you actually listened to the dialogue, they talk about what went wrong in their relationship. 507 was an example. Peyton told Luke why she said someday and Luke told Peyton why he "moved on". Nuff said.
They had insecurties in S3...yes! and I never went against that. But they WERE able to move past it!!!! maybe it's the way you word your phrases, cause you just sound like you're contradicting yourself. Whether you think they moved past their insecurities or not, brucas wouldn't have been fighting about peyton time and time again (313, 314, 317, 322) if they had "moved past it." That's where I stand. So we'll agree to disagree.
Peyton cheated in S3, broke up Jeyton and Brucas, and then got together in S4, they cheated in S5, and then got together in S6. See, you connect their cheating with their reunion. That's your problem. Leyton's library kiss was not the reason why brucas OR jeyton broke up. You said it yourself, the library kiss was not a romantic moment for leyton. It wasn't cheating. So do you think the library kiss is what "brought leyton together" in s4? The cheating in s5 landed peyton alone. Lucas didn't choose peyton after that kiss. That's what counts. The kiss drove them apart if anything. He proposed to somebody else for crying out loud. So again, do you really think the kiss in 507 is what brought leyton back together for s6? If not, then don't connect the two occasions. The cheating occasions (excluding s3 because IMO and in others' including many brucas fans' opinions, it wasn't cheating!) were heart farts. Whenever Leyton tried to deny their feelings for eachother, their repressed feelings would spring up once and while and overwhelm them - hence, the "giving into eachother". You don't have to agree with what they did - heck, I don't - I'm just explaining them to you.
Everything seems balanced on the show when leyton are official the reason I said that was because everytime leyton is together, all the other major couples on the show (out of the core 5) are just happy. There was no drama with "wondering if the person wanted to be with the other". S4 was couple bliss for everyone. S3 - not so much: Jake was sure Peyton was still hanging onto Luke. and Brooke felt deep down that Luke still hung onto peyton. That's what brought me to say what I said. It was more than opinion - it was from observation.
Brooke and Nathan had pretty brutal childhoods, but they didn't hide their hearts. but you need to understand that every individual reacts differently to their bad childhoods. Brooke and Nathan still suffered side effects from their messed up childhoods. They were both quite destructive in their lifestyles. Up to season 5 Nate still struggled with his old lifestyle - after his accident & with Nannie Carrie. Brooke still struggled to get naked emotionally but had no problems getting naked physically (playing games, getting naked in owen's back seat - season 1 all over again). Everybody battles demons everyday. It's just life. Brathan are very similar. So are Leyton (since they both suffer from the similar side effects).
there were many times where you were negative towards Brucas, Like when? and I'm not speaking for all LPers, but again, I'm speaking for myself. I was NOT apart of the "pretend to like brucas" parade so you can't use that to excuse your behavior. If you think it's so bad for LPers to bash brucas, then why do you think you can stoop to that level and be any better?
That was obviously because she was mad. Mad at Peyton for having feelings for Lucas, after promising her she wouldnt do anything to hurt her. And she appologized to Lucas right then and there. Its like Peyton being mad at Lucas for going to check up on Brooke before checking up on her. Regardless of the reason, brooke's actions cannot be justified by her anger. She still crossed the line. Big time. I'm not pretending to justify leyton's mistakes. I've acknowledged them. You should acknowledged brooke's instead of saying Peyton deserved it. That's low.
and the meaning behind what Brooke said (322) went a lot deeper than what Peyton said (415). Do you really think that brooke's meltdown in 322 was solely based on what happened in 321? Everything that happened with brucas throughout s3 can't be dismissed. But if that's where you stand we'll agree to disagree, lol.
Lucas- "I need you to believe me when I tell you my heart is with you." It was "why won't you let me all the way in?" It's not like luke didn't give any part of himself to brooke. He did love her afterall. and Brooke never doubted that Luke loved her - it was the level of love, the level of commitment, the level of surrender that Brooke doubted. With Brucas' relationship Luke had a lot of words, but lacked in the follow through ("I love you Brooke, I don't know how else to say it."; "how about how you show it???").
Im NOT changning the argument. I know what they orginal disagreement was. I did re-read your post saBRUCAS. We were originally talking about luke going back to lindsey and proposing as being two different mistakes. That's why I said you went off track, cause you changed that argument.
You're just not clear enough in your posts. After you said that, you said in one of your later posts: "cheating" was a mistake and "proposing" was another. THAT makes it different. In Mistake #2, you put "cheating" and "leaving". Those are two different things. That's where the confusion starts. Because the- "cheating" part never hurt Peyton. but it was a mistake. The "leaving back to lindsey" part DID hurt peyton. but the leaving is TIED to the proposing. That was ONE mistake/hurtful action toward Peyton IMO. See what I'm trying to say? but either way, we won't agree, so we'll leave it at that, lol.
Since this couple is soooooo very epic I would like them to talk about why why why did Lucas say "I do" to lindsey First of all, not all epic couples can be depicted in the way you prefer.
Second, we all got to see that Luke was hiding his heart. Luke wanted to believe he could move on. Peyton broke his heart twice (s1, s5). Luke was afraid to go there again with Peyton. He did fall in love with lindsey, so he figured he could try and have a future with her instead. That's why. Luke never doubted that Peyton loved him. He just doubted that she loved him enough (I love you so much" - Peyton; "just not enough" - Luke). He was afraid to trust her. but again, 601 was about luke waking up ("Is this what you wanted Peyton?" - Luke in his dream; "If I say it's more than I wanted are you gonna tease me? Cause it is" - Peyton in luke's dream). You see? Luke went into his own mind, his own heart - he learned to trust Peyton's love for him and to humble himself to the reality that he can't escape his heart. Peyton always knew Luke needed to learn that ("a proposal that was driven by some insecurity that I have NEVER been able to understand" - Peyton). That's what takes me back to the article I wrote about Luke's psyche vs his relationships. With his fear of abandonment (given his history with Dan), his feelings for Peyton went so deep that he was afraid of them. He was afraid Peyton couldn't possibly feel as deep a connection as he did. Despite the fact that he hid with Brooke in s1 then realized he didn't wanna hide anymore, he never did truly learn from that mistake. Hence his repeat scenario in season 5. but (like I said before) by 518, with Haley's help and his dream in 601, Luke truly grew from his mistakes. and Peyton saw it.
And as I said before, I would love to hear leyton talk more about s5, but they already have talked a little; and we've seen the inside of luke's heart (601 dream) so we know where it stands. Where it's always stood. So I'll be fine with where leyton stands either way...
I am not forcing you to reply to my posts. I know you're not forcing me, lol. I just enjoy debating and I keep replying to you, reexplaining things in hopes that you'll stop misunderstanding me. In hopes that we could actually have a reasonable, enjoyable debate. Oh well.
She made Lindsey question Lucas's love for her. When? When did she directly do that? Was it not lindsey who literally confessed that Luke's books were what made her think that Lucas was still holding onto Peyton? All Peyton really did was piss lindsey off and make her insecure. but never did Peyton directly make lindsey doubt luke's love. That was all on Lucas. Otherwise, can you please give me an example?
just once,(112) I would have been fine with it but they kept doing it for 4 more episodes, and Peyton did it again in S3 and they did it again in S5. IF they cared do you think they would have done it so many times? It's not about "not caring". It's about heart farts. They tried to stay friends in s1, they tried to stay friends in s5, but their love got the best of them both times. and you and I both know it wouldn't have been "fine" if the s1 cheating was just once, lol. but I know what you're saying - them continuing the affair was obviously worse. Just remember - it wasn't a mindless affair - they were in love - and were trying to find the right time to tell brooke (not that I'm excusing their behavior).
I dont consider it as LP cheating I consider it as Peyton ambushing Lucas. So it was only her. Like you know how, when Nathan is getting his award in S4 Rachel kisses him? just like that. K, but you referred to it as cheating earlier. Anyhow, you're gonna compare Rachel's obvious schemes (heck she admitted she was scheming and you could see it in her devious smiles) to Peyton dying and genuinely saying goodbye to her best friend ("I'm not trying to steal him, ok?? - Peyton)? We'll just have to leave it at that.
S2 LP didnt even interact. Peyton was busy in falling LOVE with Jake. And why would she burry her feelings for Lucas in S2 he was free that would have been a good time for her to go after him You were so happy looking at brucas, that you didn't see how Peyton wasn't only hurting because Jake was gone. She felt alone. Why do you think Peyton was so hurt that Luke wasn't around for half the season (confrontation in 210)? It wasn't as simple as peyton being "busy falling for jake". She was trying to move on. Remember, she was in LOVE with lucas in s1 and only broke up with him for Brooke. That's all. Leyton didn't just "switch their feelings off" after one summer. Personally I think it took them so long to find their way back to eachother in s2 because it was hard being around one another after everything that happened in s1. and what do you mean peyton was free to pursue luke? I'm sure brucas fans woulda thought that was "selfless", lol. She broke up with Luke for Brooke, remember? Why would she go back and pursue him again after the summer? She knew brooke still loved lucas. She knew brucas had unfinished business...
he didnt realize she had feelings for Lucas till 319 I think Actually, again, I truly believe she buried her feelings for a lot longer than you think. "There was this boy that I loved - and I let him go. and now I'm starting to think I made a mistake." Now you can say it's Jake she was talking about - but Peyton never "let jake leave", he had to leave. Peyton let lucas go for brooke. and we all find out in 321 that it was luke peyton was always talking about. if you still don't think so, remember 314. Peyton recites some lyrics: "the stars are crying, for what we could have had." Then she says: "I love that song it reminds me of Luke." Anyhow, you don't have to agree...
S4...She was burying her feelings by constantly hanging out with Lucas? Thats a great way to bury your feelings. say what you want, but she buried her feelings. She said NOTHING to lucas till 408 - till brucas were officially over. She even kept her mouth shut when brooke broke up with luke in 401. She kept her mouth shut when luke told peyton he was gonna stop fighting for brooke anymore (404). Luke was the one who was constantly running to peyton to hang out. They had gotten so close the summer before s3 and remained close in s3 so peyton wasn't about to push luke away by s4. He needed her, so till the time was right to take the next step, she was there for him as a friend.
Well you're right everyone in the cast has made mistakes but they have ALSO learned from them Are you forgetting that up to season 5 people in the cast (other than leyton) were still making the same big mistakes?
Aww Ale, that's mean, lol! Anyways, I think SaBRUCAS really does deserve a Prop even if i don't agree with EVERYTHING & even if some of it tick me a bit, i still think SaBRUCAS is doing good, i mean she's debating with ABS07!!! Lmao, jkjkjk! ALSO Abs deserves one, but i think i gave her one already?? Oh well i'll give another!
Abby, you are totally kicking ass!! I already got you a prop, but like LF4E said, "Oh well I`ll give another" ;)
You know what saBRUCAS, I'm sorry, but you are one of the most disorganized debaters I have ever encountered. I'm not trying to insult you. but you just don't seem to notice when you tangent in a debate. You often lose track of what we focus on. Maybe one day you'll realize what i'm talking about maybe not. but I'm just done getting frustrated.
How am I not focusing on one thing? You brought up Felix and Brooke and used them as an example of how they are simmilar to Lucas and Lindsey. I was just stating my opinion on that...so that means I'm going on tangents? ok.
do you realize that you just proved my point? you said it yourself. luke didn't know who he wanted till the end. from 512 to 518 he didn't know who he wanted. Yes he pined after lindsey, but then still had heated moments with peyton throughout that period ((514, 516, 517), then he considered brooke all over again. He didn't flip from lindsey in 512 to peyton in 513. It was a long trifecta process. so thank-you for proving my point.
If Lucas not knowing who he wanted till 518 and was pining for Lindsey till 518 proves your point then I guess we were talking about the same thing. My point was that Lucas was still pining for Lindsey till the last episode and then that same day he called Peyton and proposed to her. Meaning that it wasnt like Brooke and Felix because Brooke broke up with Felix and didnt pine for him till she got with Lucas. She got over him in a second. That was not the case with Lucas.
and I never said that they did. That's my point. You literally stated it as if you thought I thought differently.
ok. This is what you said before. You really need to start reading what you write.
Brucas talked things out so often because they were often FIGHTING about it. Leyton haven't been FIGHTING about lindsey
This sounds like you're saying the reason BL talk is because they fight and since LP dont fight they dont talk. Does it not?
Wow. You misunderstood me again, lol. Did I NOT just say that? Whatever, lol. You just don't seem to understand what I'm saying.
I missunderstood again? ok this is what you said.
I'm well aware that brucas have had meaningful conversations outside of fighting-They just didn't have many meaningful convos outside of fighting
Yep its deffinitely me who keeps misunderstanding because what you say is just sooo clear. I mean who in the hell would not get what youre trying to say here?
Luke's speech in 223 doesn't explain his cheating. He was just putting brooke's insecurities to rest about the stuff he kept. He never explained "why" he cheated. and 309 once again, he doesn't explain his cheating, he just says "I know I hurt you before, but --". and that's the end of it. They never go into the why - which was a vital piece missing. That's all I'm saying.
He says he didnt have feelings for her back then not that that excuses him to cheat on Brooke but he says that. And when he says that he keeps that stuff as reminder of how badly he messed up is pretty much saying that he regrets ever doing it...I took that as them talking about their issues.
See, you connect their cheating with their reunion. That's your problem. Leyton's library kiss was not the reason why brucas OR jeyton broke up. You said it yourself, the library kiss was not a romantic moment for leyton. It wasn't cheating. So do you think the library kiss is what "brought leyton together" in s4? The cheating in s5 landed peyton alone. Lucas didn't choose peyton after that kiss. That's what counts. The kiss drove them apart if anything. He proposed to somebody else for crying out loud. So again, do you really think the kiss in 507 is what brought leyton back together for s6? If not, then don't connect the two occasions. The cheating occasions (excluding s3 because IMO and in others' including many brucas fans' opinions, it wasn't cheating!) were heart farts. Whenever Leyton tried to deny their feelings for eachother, their repressed feelings would spring up once and while and overwhelm them - hence, the "giving into eachother". You don't have to agree with what they did - heck, I don't - I'm just explaining them to you
I'm not saying that them getting together was the immediate result of them cheating. I'm saying that their cheating causes them to break up with people which basically eliminates any threat and eventually leads to their reunion. If the cheating was not followed by them getting together i wouldnt say this. Its been the case every single time. I dont count s3 cheating on Lucas's part I do on Peytons. Its just my opinion. And I know not everyone agrees with me on this. The Library kiss did bring Leyton together not immediately though. It broke BL up. Peyton developed feelings for Lucas and eventually it did bring them together. It would be much better if Mark didnt have LP cheat every single time they got together. It'd be nice to see how it happens if they actually waited and got together normally with out hurting or breaking anyone up.
but you need to understand that every individual reacts differently to their bad childhoods. Brooke and Nathan still suffered side effects from their messed up childhoods. They were both quite destructive in their lifestyles. Up to season 5 Nate still struggled with his old lifestyle - after his accident & with Nannie Carrie. Brooke still struggled to get naked emotionally but had no problems getting naked physically (playing games, getting naked in owen's back seat - season 1 all over again). Everybody battles demons everyday. It's just life. Brathan are very similar. So are Leyton (since they both suffer from the similar side effects).
But this cant be the reason every single time. Saying that any relationship either of them was in was just denial makes people not want to ship them. In s1 I can completely understand that, but not every time. We're in s6 and Mark decided to use the same excuse again.
Like when? and I'm not speaking for all LPers, but again, I'm speaking for myself. I was NOT apart of the "pretend to like brucas" parade so you can't use that to excuse your behavior. If you think it's so bad for LPers to bash brucas, then why do you think you can stoop to that level and be any better?
it's better for that to happen than for your boyfriend to cheat on you, kiss another girl and not tell you about it, and make you feel insecure during the entire relationship. and at least with leyton - there's a happy ending :)
Are you not bashing BL here? and before you say that you only said this as a response to what I said "then why do you think you can stoop to that level and be any better?"
Thats is one example...but I have to admit that you are one of the few LPers who arent always going around bashing BL. And you did kinda speak for all LPers saying that they dont want to debate
with me because I take "cheap shots" at LP. And I said that they bash BL all the time so that shouldnt be a reason not to debate.
Regardless of the reason, brooke's actions cannot be justified by her anger. She still crossed the line. Big time. I'm not pretending to justify leyton's mistakes. I've acknowledged them. You should acknowledged brooke's instead of saying Peyton deserved it. That's low.
I think you're making it a bigger deal than it is. Brooke saying "for once, can you put me above your precious Peyton and do what I ask? thanks!" Is Brooke crossing the line big time? how?
I dont think Brooke is at any wrong here.
sure, we'll agree to disagree.
You're just not clear enough in your posts. After you said that, you said in one of your later posts: "cheating" was a mistake and "proposing" was another. THAT makes it different. In Mistake #2, you put "cheating" and "leaving". Those are two different things. That's where the confusion starts. Because the- "cheating" part never hurt Peyton. but it was a mistake. The "leaving back to lindsey" part DID hurt peyton. but the leaving is TIED to the proposing. That was ONE mistake/hurtful action toward Peyton IMO. See what I'm trying to say? but either way, we won't agree, so we'll leave it at that, lol.
Yeah we will deffinitely not agree on this.
Second, we all got to see that Luke was hiding his heart. Luke wanted to believe he could move on. Peyton broke his heart twice (s1, s5). Luke was afraid to go there again with Peyton. He did fall in love with lindsey, so he figured he could try and have a future with her instead. That's why. Luke never doubted that Peyton loved him. He just doubted that she loved him enough (I love you so much" - Peyton; "just not enough" - Luke). He was afraid to trust her. but again, 601 was about luke waking up ("Is this what you wanted Peyton?" - Luke in his dream; "If I say it's more than I wanted are you gonna tease me? Cause it is" - Peyton in luke's dream). You see? Luke went into his own mind, his own heart - he learned to trust Peyton's love for him and to humble himself to the reality that he can't escape his heart. Peyton always knew Luke needed to learn that ("a proposal that was driven by some insecurity that I have NEVER been able to understand" - Peyton). That's what takes me back to the article I wrote about Luke's psyche vs his relationships. With his fear of abandonment (given his history with Dan), his feelings for Peyton went so deep that he was afraid of them. He was afraid Peyton couldn't possibly feel as deep a connection as he did. Despite the fact that he hid with Brooke in s1 then realized he didn't wanna hide anymore, he never did truly learn from that mistake. Hence his repeat scenario in season 5. but (like I said before) by 518, with Haley's help and his dream in 601, Luke truly grew from his mistakes. and Peyton saw it.
And as I said before, I would love to hear leyton talk more about s5, but they already have talked a little; and we've seen the inside of luke's heart (601 dream) so we know where it stands. Where it's always stood. So I'll be fine with where leyton stands either way...
They have talked about why Peyton said someday and why Lucas moved on, but Lucas was willing to spend the rest of his life with Lindsey just because he was hiding his heart? He married Lindsey and I think LP should talk about it because its was a big deal. But again thats just my opinion. so we'll agree to disagree.
I know you're not forcing me, lol. I just enjoy debating and I keep replying to you, reexplaining things in hopes that you'll stop misunderstanding me. In hopes that we could actually have a reasonable, enjoyable debate. Oh well.
I enjoy debating too but I dont keep telling people that they are repeating themselves, I just respond because I have a response for it. In hopes that may be they would start to actually debate instead of saying I'm constantly misunderstanding them when I state time and again why the misunderstandind took place. Or telling me that I'm repeating myself when its simply just a response to what they have stated previosly...but oh well.
All Peyton really did was piss lindsey off and make her insecure
Making Lindsey insecure...isnt that making Lindsey feel she should be worried about LP. Like Lucas may not love her as much as he loved/loves Peyton. Thats what I'm trying to say she made Lindsey insecure; and caused her to question Lucas's love for her.
It's not about "not caring". It's about heart farts. They tried to stay friends in s1, they tried to stay friends in s5, but their love got the best of them both times. and you and I both know it wouldn't have been "fine" if the s1 cheating was just once, lol. but I know what you're saying - them continuing the affair was obviously worse. Just remember - it wasn't a mindless affair - they were in love - and were trying to find the right time to tell brooke (not that I'm excusing their behavior).
I dont think we'll ever agree on this either. IMO Peyton and Lucas obviously didnt care about other people as much as they did about themselves.
we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
K, but you referred to it as cheating earlier. Anyhow, you're gonna compare Rachel's obvious schemes (heck she admitted she was scheming and you could see it in her devious smiles) to Peyton dying and genuinely saying goodbye to her best friend ("I'm not trying to steal him, ok?? - Peyton)? We'll just have to leave it at that.
I have always said that IMO s3 library kiss was not cheating on Lucas' part but was on Peytons. Thats where I stand on that and that will not change...so yeah we'll leave it at that.
You were so happy looking at brucas, that you didn't see how Peyton wasn't only hurting because Jake was gone. She felt alone. Why do you think Peyton was so hurt that Luke wasn't around for half the season (confrontation in 210)? It wasn't as simple as peyton being "busy falling for jake". She was trying to move on. Remember, she was in LOVE with lucas in s1 and only broke up with him for Brooke. That's all. Leyton didn't just "switch their feelings off" after one summer. Personally I think it took them so long to find their way back to eachother in s2 because it was hard being around one another after everything that happened in s1. and what do you mean peyton was free to pursue luke? I'm sure brucas fans woulda thought that was "selfless", lol. She broke up with Luke for Brooke, remember? Why would she go back and pursue him again after the summer? She knew brooke still loved lucas. She knew brucas had unfinished business...
I guess I missed it. I thought she was missing Jake not Lucas in s2.
I mean both Peyton and Lucas were free to go after each other. And if they never stopped loving each other like LPers claim then they should have been together. Yeah she knew Brooke loved Lucas she knew that in s1 too that didnt stop her from cheating so why wouldnt she go after him when she could with out it being as wrong. And Lucas showed no interest in Peyton...He never made it look like he was having a hard time being near Peyton. Also Brooke told Peyton about the things she found in Lucas's closet and she asked Peyton if that was "good timing" ... Brooke was willing for LP to get together if thats what Peyton wanted. So I really dont understand why LP would not get together in s2 other then they didnt have feelings for each other.
say what you want, but she buried her feelings. She said NOTHING to lucas till 408 - till brucas were officially over. She even kept her mouth shut when brooke broke up with luke in 401. She kept her mouth shut when luke told peyton he was gonna stop fighting for brooke anymore (404). Luke was the one who was constantly running to peyton to hang out. They had gotten so close the summer before s3 and remained close in s3 so peyton wasn't about to push luke away by s4. He needed her, so till the time was right to take the next step, she was there for him as a friend.
She didnt tell Lucas she loved him till 408 but she constantly questioned his love for Brooke. She constantly asked him if he was sure he wanted Brooke back. Almost as if she wanted Lucas to say that he loves Peyton and not Brooke. She also tells Brooke that she would have given anything for Lucas to say her name when she asks him who he see's next to him.
So yeah she didnt tell him she loved him but she tried to make him say it...atleast IMO she did.
it wasnt like Brooke and Felix because Brooke broke up with Felix and didnt pine for him till she got with Lucas that wasn't the aspect of Brelix that I was comparing with my Brucas/Brelix vs Leyton/Lundsey theory. I used the example about Lucas waiting for Brooke. For all Luke knew, Brelix could have gotten serious. But he waited. and Peyton waited for Luke even AFTER Lindsey dumped him, she still waited. That's all I was saying. I never said that Brelix's relationship was a carbon copy of Lundsey's.
My point was that Lucas was still pining for Lindsey till the last episode and then that same day he called Peyton and proposed to her are you forgetting WHY lindsey broke up with lucas? because she knew he was still in love with Peyton. Hales knew it as soon as she read luke's book. It wasn't like luke flipped a switch & settled for Peyton. It was about admitting his heart. and remember, luke's wanted to marry peyton for years...so 518 was a long time coming...you may see it as sudden ("I know this sounds crazy, but I --"; "I know it's sudden" - Luke), but I saw it as 512 all the way to 518: Luke's journey back to his heart. Luke never stopped loving Peyton and it showed throughout the season, including this period of "pining" after lindsey. So again, for me, it wasn't a flip of a switch. so we'll just agree to disagree...
This is what you said before. You really need to start reading what you write. Ok saBRUCAS, maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote. Otherwise, paste these words you claimed I wrote. Cause I am telling you right now, that was never where I stood.
Yep its deffinitely me who keeps misunderstanding because what you say is just sooo clear. I mean who in the hell would not get what youre trying to say here? saBRUCAS, you are the first debater I've had this problem with. Ever, lol. I dunno what to say.
He says he didnt have feelings for her back then not that that excuses him to cheat on Brooke but he says that. And when he says that he keeps that stuff as reminder of how badly he messed up is pretty much saying that he regrets ever doing it...I took that as them talking about their issues. I know they talked, but again, I'll say, they didn't go into the "why". Yeah, luke said he didn't have feelings for Brooke then. but that doesn't truly say "why" he cheated. Many people cheat on people they actually LOVE. I mean, look what Luke did to Lindsey. And Luke went out with Anna, and didn't have feelings for her; but he didn't cheat on her with Brooke.
I'm not saying that them getting together was the immediate result of them cheating. I'm saying that their cheating causes them to break up with people which basically eliminates any threat and eventually leads to their reunion. The cheating in s1 never caused Brucas to break up though. Lucas dumped Brooke remember? So even though Brooke (aka the threat) was out of the picture, Leyton didn't stay together afterwards. They ended it, and it was brucas who ended up getting together. So that doesn't apply. The s3 kiss (no matter how you interpreted it) did not break brucas up ("I'm sorry I kissed Peyton. I shoulda told you." "It's not about that, Luke. It's not. I thought that it was, but this is not about HER." There was no lie in Brooke's eyes when she said that). Lastly, the season 5 kiss did not cause Lundsey to break up. Luke and his book did. Lindsey never even found out about the kiss. Leyton's reunion was strongly tied to Luke's book ("this book is what brought us back together" - Luke).
But this cant be the reason every single time. Saying that any relationship either of them was in was just denial makes people not want to ship them. In s1 I can completely understand that, but not every time. We're in s6 and Mark decided to use the same excuse again. That's when it comes down to personal preference. You see s5 as a redundant overplayed problem. But those of us who ship them obviously saw something more. It wasn't like Peyton was pushing Luke away being afraid of a relationship (like in s1). This was the next step, the biggest step: Marriage. Leyton both wanted it, but were not on the same page "time" wise. Anyhow, I won't tell you a long story about it. I'll just say that s5 was about true growth and battling personal demons. More on Luke's part than Peyton's. But you don't have to agree.
Are you not bashing BL here? No. I literally stated facts. If you talk about Leyton cheating, I don't get mad. But when you start calling names and tearing down their characters, that's considered bashing.
they bash BL all the time so that shouldnt be a reason not to debate. Not all LPers bash BL. Some of my closest LP fans online are very civil when it comes to talking about BL. They can be brutally honest, but not degrading...Those people don't like debating with you when you bash LP. I won't speak for the others...
I think you're making it a bigger deal than it is. Brooke saying "for once, can you put me above your precious Peyton and do what I ask? thanks!" Is Brooke crossing the line big time? how? No, sorry, I was referring to brooke talking about Peyton's dead moms. I considered that as crossing the line. I didn't care how upset she was, she didn't have to go there.
but Lucas was willing to spend the rest of his life with Lindsey just because he was hiding his heart? He married Lindsey and I think LP should talk about it because its was a big deal Remember, Lucas was in love with Lindsey. It wasn't like he was as indifferent to her as he was with Brooke in season 1. He was in love with her and hoped that would be enough (he hoped that with that, he'd eventually get over Peyton). But he eventually learned that love wasn't enough ("It takes more than love to build a marriage." - Lindsey).
Peyton knew Luke was still in love with her as soon as she read Luke's book, and Luke eventually admitted it to himself (again, with help from Haley and his trifecta dream that brought him to a final crossroads). But yeah, I see where you're coming from. As I already said, I wouldn't mind if Leyton talked more, but from what I've mentioned in their favor, it's clear that Peyton understands Luke's mistakes and so does Luke. That's what counts for me. So we'll agree to disagree.
I enjoy debating too but I dont keep telling people that they are repeating themselves, I just respond because I have a response for it. In hopes that may be they would start to actually debate instead of saying I'm constantly misunderstanding them when I state time and again why the misunderstandind took place. Or telling me that I'm repeating myself when its simply just a response to what they have stated previosly...but oh well. Look, sorry if I offended you. I just got so frustrated when I found that I was responding to your comments, and you didn't acknowledge many of them. I just noticed that you restated things as if I'd never responded to them before. I was offended by that. Like you didn't respect me enough as a debater to acknowledge my words accordingly - as I've acknowledged yours (even though you refer to it as breaking your statements into 10 paragraphs? lol).
Making Lindsey insecure...isnt that making Lindsey feel she should be worried about LP. Like Lucas may not love her as much as he loved/loves Peyton. Thats what I'm trying to say she made Lindsey insecure; and caused her to question Lucas's love for her. Peyton's presence made lindsey insecure. Luke's first book, made lindsey insecure. But peyton's words "I don't like her" did nothing more than make lindsey pissed. Other than the library showdown with the infamous ring (after which peyton took her words back - and lindsey believed her), there was nothing that Peyton really did to cause Lindsey to be insecure.
if they never stopped loving each other like LPers claim then they should have been together So what if Brooke asked Peyton if she wanted Luke? Peyton was being selfless. Leyton stayed apart for Brooke's sake. That's why they ended it in the first place - because Brooke wanted Luke when Leyton wanted to be together. and Peyton didn't go back on her words when she ended it with Luke. She didn't wanna repeat her mistakes remember? Peyton knew that Brucas had unfinished business, so though Luke was single, Leyton weren't about to relive their mistakes from season 1 - the time wasn't right for them to be together yet. They had journeys to walk - separately. But once Brucas had closure the right way, Leyton were free to just be together.
Lucas showed no interest in Peyton...He never made it look like he was having a hard time being near Peyton They weren't even around eachother for a lot of the time cause it was too hard IMO. When they finally had a real conversation in 210, was a perfect example that things were still hard for them. It took time, but they were finally able to just be friends by the end of the season. But season 3's sequence of heart farts clearly showed that Leyton's efforts to hide their hearts were nearly futile...
Brooke was willing for LP to get together if thats what Peyton wanted. But Peyton just wouldn't do that to Brooke. I think Peyton hoped that everybody could be happy - her with Jake, and Brooke with Lucas, no hearts broken. But Jake was Peyton's 2nd choice as Lindsey was for Luke - hence peyton's s3 proposal...
I really dont understand why LP would not get together in s2 other then they didnt have feelings for each other. They ended things in s1, heartbroken. They lost hope and tried to move on. That's why. They wanted to avoid repeating the drama from season 1.
she constantly questioned his love for Brooke. She constantly asked him if he was sure he wanted Brooke back. What do you mean constantly? It was the one time in 401. Then she asked him about the "woman he wanted standing next to him". And you interpreted that as "manipulative" I'm sure. but I saw it as Peyton genuinely trying to help Lucas figure out what he wanted. She saw how Brucas were in s3. She noticed that his words and actions just didn't compliment eachother when it came to brooke. So despite her feelings, Peyton wondered if Luke was being true to himself. It wasn't like she was trying to manipulate him by bringing up her past with him or anything. In fact, Luke was the one who brought up their past. So though Peyton had a feeling that Luke was hiding his heart, she tried to help Luke get brooke back since that's what he wanted at the time ( the mall thing, and pep talk with getting him to talk to Brooke at the house party - "put on your game face and talk to her"). But Peyton's instincts were dead on, as Luke had his epiphany in 409. Never did Peyton try to convince Luke to get over Brooke, nor did she feed Luke any lingo that would convince him to fall in love with her all over again. Luke figured out things all by himself. You obviously saw Peyton's actions different, so we'll leave it at that.
She also tells Brooke that she would have given anything for Lucas to say her name when she asks him who he see's next to him. That was after Lucas told Peyton that he and Brooke realized that it was over. After 408 - after Brucas truly had closure. So what's wrong with Peyton being flat out honest about her feelings for luke? She hid her feelings for him beforehand (till the time was right), but the feelings were always there. So ofcourse she'd hope Luke would have said her name.
I can see where you're coming from with seeing Peyton's actions in a different light. So I hope you can see where I'm coming from as well. Both possibilities aren't impossible to fathom. Maybe that'll give you somekind of peace with Peyton someday...who knows? anything's possible right?
Sorry I don't know what you guys are debating about but your very passionate about it... LOL :D
fuck you saBRUCAS! whore.
I KNOW:D
HAHAHAHAHAHAH <3
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