She created the prophecy.

^ True that.

She had a heck of a lot more actual visions.

^ Like?

Sometimes Alice's visions aren't true. It depends on the people's decisions and stuff....while Trelawney created the prophecies.

^ I agree. She had the prophecy about Harry and Voldemort. Although Alice was psychic, her visions weren't very accurate or helpful.

the cullens would be nothing without alice's visions

^ How do you figure that?

Alice could warn them when someone was comming. if they didnt know about the newborn army coming, they wouldn't have teamed up with the wolves. they would have lost. if they didn't know when the Volturi was coming, they wouldn't have teamed up with all the vampires they know. the Volturi would have got Renesmee without hesitating.

She had the vision about Bella being a vampire; Bella jumping off a cliff; Edward meeting the Volturi; Edward deciding to walk out in the sunlight; James, Victoria, and Laurent arriving; James' patterns while he was stalking Bella; the Volturi arriving; the new born army arriving; Bella deciding to go the the rez. And many, many more, but I haven't read the series recently and can't remember every single one.

Trewlany had two true visions (as stated by Dumbledore is Prisoner of Azkaban). I don't see how that makes her a "better" psychic.

^^She could predict that, but she couldn't predict Bella sneaking away from her and Jasper as she went to the ballet studio alone? What if they didn't arrive in time and James wasn't so bent on taunting her? He could have easily killed her before they arrived. Or when Bella cut herself at her birthday party. She didn't know that Jasper would attack her?

^^ Again, see what I wrote back to YouKnowIt.

Well, if Trewlany's "better" why couldn't she see that Severus was going to kill Dumbledore? That Harry was going to run off to the ministry? Why couldn't she see that Dumbledore was planning his death? What the Death Eaters and Voldemort were doing? What the Death Eaters were doing? That Pettigrew was alive and in Hogwarts? That Sirius was an animagus? That she was going to lose her job?

Alice had many more visions that actually came true than Trewlany did.

Trelawney had prophecies rather than random visions. The other students thought she was a crackpot teacher because of her looks and the way she conducts herself. She still predicted a major event that sets up the whole series of Harry Potter and why Voldemort killed Harry in the first place.

I'm not saying that Alice isn't a good psychic, but she had a few flaws (like how she can't 'see' things when the wolves were around).

She had two prophecies. Again, Alice still had more visions that came true that Trewlany.

And Alice predicted four major events that sets up the plot in each book: the arrival of James, Victoria, and Laurent and James stalking Bella; Bella and Edward "killing" themselves; the new born army coming to try and kill the Cullens; the Volturi coming to kill Renesme.

We don't get to see much of Trelawney using her psychic powers (mainly in GOF), but if we did, I think she would have more visions that came true.

1-She saw them coming, but still, Bella ran towards James, completely ignoring the help and protection the Cullens were offering her.

2-If she didn't see Bella cutting herself and Jasper attacking her, none of this 'killing' themselves would have happened.

3-The only good vision that didn't really have flaws imo.

4-She and Jasper ran away for months (I don't remember the timeline because I only read BD once). If there was no battle, why did they need to gather all those vampires for? She could have just called that one half-breed and save all those vampires from traveling all the way to Forks on Nessie's behalf.

there would have been a battle if alice didnt get the other vampires. the big crowd got the volturi curious enough to hear them out

But there was no battle. What a waste of a good set up to a fight D;

Dumbledore would know more about Trewlany's predictions than we would, no? And he specifically stated "That brings her total number of predictions up to two." I don't think us seeing more of her would change her level of psychic ability.

Alice's visions are subjective, all based on decisions. I never said that she was an all-powerful, be-all-end-all psychic, I just said she was better than Trewlany.

1- Bella running toward James had nothing to do with Alice's visions. She was a moron and believed he had kidnapped her mother.

2- Again subjective. Jasper was attacking her was decision based. He was perfectly capable of being in the same room with her in Twilight. This was caused by some unconscious, split-second decision on Jasper's part.

4- The Volturi were planning on attacking the Cullens. The Volturi decided not to once they saw the army the Cullens had gathered.

Which psychic would you trust more though? A psychic who predicted 2 (major) prophecies, or someone who had a bunch of hunches, some of them coming true? I would personally trust the first one (hello, Nostradamus vs. a TV psychic for instance?)

1-I agree, Bella is a moron x]

2-Why didn't she have that vision before the party? It was common knowledge that Bella is clumsy (she can't even walk across a flat surface without tripping). Why couldn't Edward open her presents for her?

4-I only read Breaking Dawn once, so I don't remember them wanting to attack the Cullens. I do remember Irina (is that her name?) was the tattletale who told the Volturi. Why couldn't Alice see Irina watching Renesmee?

Clearly <3
I love Trelawney!

Bella didn't decide to get a papercut. thats why Alice didnt see it

I'd trust Alice, tbh. I'd much rather have a well inclined hunch than a "well, she made two prophecies during her life time. The others were all bs, but there were two legitimate ones."
I don't know what reference you made(the Nostradamus part, not the TV psychic part) so I can't really say anything.

1- XD

2- Again, decision. Bella decided to open that particular present (in the movie Esme hands it to her, but in the book she picks off a table). There were others she could have chosen from.

3- Couple of things: Irina (or maybe it was Irene? Idk, something like that) wasn't really watching, she stumbled across Renesme hunting and realized that the child was feeding like a vampire. That was the whole problem: had Irena stopped for a second she would have realized that Renesme had a heart beat.
Also, I don't remember what made her come to Forks to begin with, but I remember that she was indecisive about actually going to the Cullens. She decided finally and on her way stumbled across Renesme.

Nostradamus was a famous seer who many people said predicted the first 2 world wars. Again, only 2 predictions, but they were quite major and resulted in many deaths. I would rather trust him then say one of those 1-800-psychics that flood our late night TV's with their ads.

1-Yeah! Something we can agree on x]

2-Still, Bella is clumsy. I would not allow her to grab a present for herself. They should have just told her what the present was, like how Emmett told her about the car stereo they bought her.

3-They could have gone hunting at a later time? Or bring back blood for Nessie to snack on. She is still a baby after all, no matter how old she looks. I don't remember who went hunting with Nessie. If the Cullens were so fast, they could have caught her and explained that she wasn't an immortal child? IDK, I don't remember BD too much.

Imo, those TV psychics never get anything right. Except how to con people out of their money.

1 - Haha :)

2- This is a matter of opinion. Bella is said to be clumsy, but she's rarely ever shown to be clumsy. Except when it suits the needs of the plot. There were plenty of times where she skipped up and down stairs, walked straight, and played with paper without getting hurt.

3 - Why go hunting at a later time?
Nessie didn't just look older, she was older physically. She could walk, run, jump, climb just days after she was born. They didn't need to bring her blood because she was physically capable of getting it herself.
I don't remember why they didn't go after her immediately. I know they talked about it and Carlisle thought he could convince her of the truth, but that was after she'd run off.

Exactly. I don't trust those TV psychics, but I was just trying to compare them (Alice) to Trelawney (Nostradamus). I'm not saying Alice is a con artist. I was just comparing the types of psychic/seers each of them are.

1. Bella is a moron. Get it, got it, good x]

2. That was her only 'flaw'. She calls herself clumsy, and others call her clumsy, but when does it actually happen? Got me there. Either make her so clumsy that she gets hurt in some way or another, or don't call her clumsy so we don't think 'why is she skipping down stairs without falling, yet she can't walk across a flat path without stumbling'.

3. Argh, SMeyer! That's the way she made the whole Jacob/Nessie relationship seem less creepy, am I right? (sorry, a little off topic here lol). Still, they could have all gone with her to show her the ropes, per se. If Irina really was the Cullens friend, why didn't she just go up to them and ask them who Renesmee was instead of jumping to conclusions? I'm sure one of the Cullens were close by Nessie as she hunted. Also, couldn't they smell Irina coming? They have super senses, don't they? I'm confused now x]

2 - Exactly. But that's Smeyer's fault for not creating a consistent character (flaw).

3 - There was a whole big story about the vampire children. It's been a while and it's a little fuzzy, so bear with me a little:
Making children into vampires was a pretty popular thing to do many years ago (around the time Jasper became a vampire) they'd make huge armies and fight other clans in the south. It got out of hand (or the Volturi became intimidated, one of the two) and the Volturi stepped in and killed the children and the creators of the children. One of them was Irena's sister. The Volturi let Irena and her other sisters go because they knew they hadn't had anything to do with them, but they kept a close eye on them anyway. Irena saw what she thought was a vampire child and ran straight to the Volturi because she thought it would protect her family.
Bella and Nessie had split from Edward (or maybe he wasn't on the hunt at all?). Either way, he wasn't where they were when Irena crossed their path. Bella hadn't met Irena (or any other vampire besides the Cullens) so she didn't recognize the scent.

See, we can debate without insulting ^_^ I agree with some of the points brought up. It was a good debate we had, agree? If only we can all debate the pros and cons instead of just destroying another's fandom without provocation or insults.

I'm going to watch Merlin now, so I'll be back later. Colin Morgan FTW ;]

Haha randomness x]

Yep :) It's fun debating when the other person isn't going, "erihhdf!!! No!!1 Your wrong 'cuz i said so!!!' It was a good debate. Haha, I think that's the most I've ever defended Twilight XP

I gotta get to bed: It's after one in the morning for me.

I've seen fans that type like this: Oh my gosh, u are so stoopid!!!111! So and so iz da bestest!!1!!1!

Luckily I haven't been attacked by anyone like that *knock on wood*

Trelawney for the win! At least her visions were destined to come true. In Twilight they can change the outcome of the visions so it doesn't exactly mean they will be true.

I'm not saying Alice isn't a good psychic or whatever because she does remember her visions, but Trelawney had the Prophecy and if it wasn't for that, Voldemort would never have been defeated.
Also, like others have pointed out, Alice's visions are never destined to come true. Trelawney's was, making it all the more important, despite the fact she has only had two true prophecies and that she is a charlatan.

Although Trelawney was awesome, I think Alice had more visions ,or prophecies, that actually cam true than Trelawney did.

Why do you compare Alice to tv psychics? Alice doesnt make up her visions or pretend to have powers

i really dont know since i dont pay atteniton to trelawney in teh books

Definitely her !!
She created the Prophecy !!

While Alice's visions are mostly subjective
and change when people change their decisions.
Alice's visions were good too, but not that important
than Trelawney's. The only important vision of her was
when she saw that Edward was going to sparkle in front
of everyone. That was a good one.

But none of her visions can be compared to the
prophecy of Sybil.

defilitly trelawney she is a little bit crazy but she created the prophecy aand alice vision's depeds on the people decitions.

all predictions are determined by decisions, except for weather

@YouKnowIt: I wasn't comparing Alice's visions to TV psychics who make up their visions. She makes a lot of predictions, doesn't mean it's always accurate. I wasn't calling her a fraud. I was just stating that she makes a lot of them, like the TV psychics.

@Youknowit

Harry Potter series wouldn't have happened without Trelawney's prophecy. That being said, 2 real prophecies in her life isn't too impressive to me.

Trelawney had less prophecies, and she was deemed "crazy", but her prophecies were a LOT more important.

i maybe hate twilight but i have to be realistic: trelawney in her whole life only 2 times she predicted something real...

I don't see how one is "Better" because they both see into the future weather its a vision or a prophecy. Alices visions that she had all came true. And so did trelawney's (well at least the ones she HAD came true) so really people. There both just characters that see into the future. they both help, so really whats the point? I picked the Alice one cause she is one of my fav pires in the series beside Carlisle and Esme. but trelawney is cool too.

she was the one who made the prophecy and foretold (if that's he right word) Voldermort coming back

Alice may have had more visions but why did she only help the other Cullen's? why didn't she help other people aswell?

And Trelawney had more important visions

alice's power confuses me, she has precognition, but she only sees the future of the path the people in the vision are on, if the path changes her vision doesnt come true, so she is pretty much predicting the future lol im going to eat a ham sandwich tomorrow i know it, does knowing that make me precognitive lol

Every one of Alice's visions can be changed, while the few real prophesies Trelawney made were real and unchanging.