i think i'm probably going to be slightly on Boyd with this issue that not all dolls are voluntary, either that or they don't know the full works

I hesitated in choosing the rape or prostitution one. I don't think the dolls were all voluntary, but at the time, if they're in love, to them emotionally at the time it won't be rape. So, I think it might be more like prostituion, if that makes any sense?

yes i think that does make sense
and i know what you mean about the emotional thing, i'm quite curious too about the love scenarios, i mean how long could you have them for? if you want someone to love you like the guy said in the trailer and it's not just a sex fantasy then won't you want them more longer than a episode?

hmm curiouser and curiouser

I wonder how much money engaging a doll exactly is? Hmmm.

i have just read alot!

Where did you read that?

after reading what you two have said I kinda want to say its rape or prostitution but then I think about it and from what I've read and seen the dolls are legitimately in love with the people who have hired them (that kinda makes it sound like prostitution!) so why not have a fully physical relationship if they are in love to that degree. Ok still not sure if I'm making sense and if I know what I mean lol.

erm a link i posted that said 10 things about dollhouse, i'm sure you've read it cause you commented on it let me go find it

and yes em_em i totally get what you mean it sounds like having love just implanted would actually be so much simpler, could possibly make you happier

yep this link
link
the first fact

Lol, I've already forgotten reading that.

And yeah, em_em I get what you mean as well.

You have me here Debsacles. Give me about five minutes to debate it around in my head and I will be back with an intelligent answer.....Well.....an answer.

I debated it for an hour (Ok, I went off for a classic biscuit and came back with enough chocolate to feed a small country) and my thoughts are the following.
While it is unbelievably wrong for a doll to be hired for love & sex it is neither rape nor prostitution. It is a whole new freaky thing that will need a whole new world. I mean, the girl doesn't think it is wrong because she is so in love with him, it's the naturual thing to do however it is very wrong for the man and I suppose in a way it is prostitution but in a way it's not because prostitutes knowingly sell their bodies and get paid for it, Echo thinks she is just madly in love with this man.
To sum up:I have no clue whatsoever. You asked me on a bad day for my brain, I will come back in the morning when my brain is refreshed after a nights sleep and think some more =D

hmmm yes i agree it's not rape to whoever echo happens to be that day, but if echo herself were to get the memory back it would feel like rape to her
although i guess if she knew that was the exact deal when she signed up then it would be like prostitution, which i guess i phrased this slightly biasedly in thinking most people think prostitution is wrong, my bad (i guess those of you that think prositution is okay can add different options)

I think it's prostiution in the way that, she is being forced to be in love with (and because of that love have sex) with this man by other people.

hmmm see it's the word fourced and the fact that others are controlling her that makes me think of rape
prostitutes can still get raped & prostitutes still have the right to say no

it will be interesting to see how the show deals with the issue

True, body force would be rape, but I still don't really see it as rape emotionally to her. So, sort of split between that.

I do wonder how the show will deal with it.

well to be honest i was a bit iffy with the buffy spike attempted rape thing, good storyline but morally she should have never got that close to him again

joss will probably do well with it though, or he might not address maybe sex is not part of the doll deal but the "fantasy" and "anything you want" does suggest it though

I think Buffy forgives easily the people she cares about. She forgave Xander for the same offense. And she forgave Angel for worse.

But yeah, Joss will probably do it well. I wonder if any Buffy writer's signed up for Dollhouse?

yeah there's erm tim minear, sarah fain and elizabeth craft and a one more that i can't remember off the top of my head

I wish I could pick 2 answers for this as i think there is a different answer for the two sides of the same person.

Echo for example, there is the echo who (supposedly) agreed to this, in her case that's prostitution. It's someone agreeing to sleep with people for money, simple as that.

Then there is the childlike mindwiped echo, who didn't agree to this, doesn't know what's going on and would probably be terrified if she found herself in a sexual situation with these people. she doesn't have the capacity to choose this, so i think in her case it's rape. People may argue that the person who has the sex is in love, but that person isn't real. To me that's like when a rapist drugs a girl then argues she wanted sex, if you have an altered state of conciousness in any way, you aren't in a position to make a desision like that.

Well, that's why i wish i could pick two. rant over :)

wow that's a really interesting point
hmmmmmm *ponders*

I think that's a really good point Bellona, but I still think it's just rape. Because to me it doesn't matter who they were, just who they are now.

Using Echo as an example, she has a comlpletely different personality than she had before becoming a doll, and even getting her memory back isn't going to turn her back into the person she used to be. Like you said, the person who feels the love doesn't really exist, but I don't think the person Echo used to be really exists any more either.

It doesn't matter who you were, if who you are now sees things differently. I'm having trouble explaining this well, but look at it this way, if you use the logic that at one point Echo agreed to this so it's not rape, by that logic an ex boyfriend would be morally justified in raping his ex, because at one point in her life she wanted to have sex with him. To me it doesn't matter that the person she used to be thought this was ok, the person she has become is th one who needs to make the choice.

The fact is that the only true personality isn't who she was, and isn't who she becomes on missions it's Echo, and she isn't given a choice. I think your analogy about rapists using drugs then claiming a girl wanted sex is the perfect way of putting it. If your mind has been tampered with to get you into a sexual situation it's rape, and that's what's happening to Echo.

I agree with Candrani. The doll is who they are now and I think to them it's rape

Of course it's all wrong, but it's awesome!

It's wrong, but that doesn't make the show any worse.