Bonne-Bell Ugh, I'm so mad right now. How can they do this to us? If they had left scene 19, 40 and/or 43 in that alone would have vastly improved the episode. One of the things I've always wanted for A/G is a discussion about Gwen's father's death and they just had to cut that scene out. They better include these scenes in the dvd.

vegalily missNST, thanks for reminding me of Dale's tweet. He did say that tptb made a conscious decision to focus on Arthur and Merlin. The "Gwen will have her turn" is definitely consistent with how they tend to tag the episodes as belonging to specific main characters/relationships. It's not good for internal continuity (see Gwen & Elyan with no interaction in 3x10 for example), but it's just how they operate, it seems. {HQ}, It definitely sucks for this episode, because all these scenes are signs of A/G's intimacy. I just think we are on a completely different wavelength than tptb. They really may have just seen this as simple designating of the episode and nothing to do with what happens later for all we know. Crazy, but possibly true. Off to work, sigh.

sportyshuie OMFG!!!! HQ!!! These are the scenes we were all looking forward to!!! These scenes could have brought more depth to their characters and picturised their love for one another in times of grief!!! Why oh just why do they have to edit all these out? Or at least keep those 19, 54 & 65 on as those moments were simply poignant in the lives of Arwen ... Ahh well ... maybe they wanted to build a stronger relationship between Merlin and Arthur during this hour of need and potray them more as in the legends rather than just prince and his slave. Whatever the reason was, only the directors knew why they have to make such a heavy editing on the arwen bit ... least we all could do is just guess and pray it will not be repeated... Anyway, HQ brilliant dear ... love you for this. At least this reduced my bitterness towards the episode ... Goodnight ... gotta sleep!!

HumbleQueen I'm thinking these were included in the script, but does anyone know if this necessarily means the scene was filmed? Were they cut from the script before filming? I don't know how this works, but one thing this says to us, guys. We can stop blaming Mr. Overman. If it's not the writers, then who or what is it all about? I'm sorry, the more I think about it the more I think this was intentional for some reason, because why were all the things which would have given strength and depth to the couple at this point neatly taken out? Why not even one moment of real comfort from one to the other? Even two of them would have made a difference. I've got a bad taste in my mouth and must admit, I'm concerned about what this means for the future.

merlinforever They cut all the best bits. The one Scene i was looking forward to is when gwen said happy birthday to arthur.

HumbleQueen Ok, you guys are helping me work through this. Some of you are being much more positive about it that I am, and I'm usually the one trying to help bring in positive viewpoints. *sigh* They caught me on a bad day. I hope Linda reads this because she already left a dynamite comment on the thread of discussion for the bedside scene. Her comment fits well here. In fact, go here and read her comment if you have time; it's down near the end and then my response. She had a sense of something even before these cuts were known about: http://www.fanpop.com/spots/arthur-and-gwen/images/26083251/title/arthur-gwen-bedside-photo

sportyshuie To sum it up ... it was supposed to be one of the best,memorable and arwenite episode of the series and of Arwen relationship yet at the end it got screwed because of bad editing and improper decision!!! Sad ... imagine how this episode could actually turned up to be if the proper decisions were made ...

EPaws PETITION! We need to start a petition. I am soooooooo not joking! Who is with us on this?

HumbleQueen Sporty, you see, that's the issue. It was actually an Arthur/Merlin episode, not A/G. And to tell you truthfully, I have no problem with that. What I have trouble with is that the episode became lacking in depth for many people because instead of showing that they're capable of giving the audience a proper view of Arthur's life--that he has this dynamite thing happening with his relationship with his servant, while at the same time there is a woman, his future wife, who also has a significant place in his total existence. So when he goes through the most heart wrenching moments of his life, he is impacted by both. Apparently, and unfortunately, it's difficult for them to give her just an additional, let's say two minutes, of the screentime to make that clear. More important to include the piggyback ride, dropped pants, and peeing scenes, to make sure certain factions are satisfied totally. Actually, the peeing scenes were probably necessary (or something was) to give Merlin the time to make his big change.) *sigh* I'll be doing that the rest of the day. Trying hard not to be unreasonable here. And all this in the most pivotal episode to this point: The death of King Uther Pendragon. I know better days may be coming and there will be Arwen centric episodes, but surely they shouldn't sacrifice the all important aspect of his life that includes Merlin when those times come. I'm glad to see that Mr. Overman had it right. And I'm not as disturbed as I was when I first read these. I think it's sad actually, because this would be so much a better show if they could do this more professionally. In fact, I suppose it shows the kids show status more clearly; kids won't notice these things where in an adult show it would be much more glaring to the viewers. And may I say, unacceptable. Getting a headache the more I think about it. Better chill, lol

HumbleQueen I know, Stacey, honey. We feel frustrated and rather helpless. I wish we'd known before actually. But if what we're seeing and hearing is accurate, Arthur and Gwen will have their day. I don't know if we can petition until we see what the future holds in the production. It's been filmed; it's wrapped. What can we do? Those who feel inclined can write respectful notes to "somebody" expressing disappointment in the way this episode (among others) was handled. We can write nice dissertations on Tumblr, LJ or wherever and send links to the producers. We can tell them how we feel about how they've handled the romance, even though we recognize this is a show primarily about Merlin and Arthur. I don't know. Answering for myself, I don't like to do anything hastily, especially when I'm mad. I like to read all views and get a good handle before doing anything. So I don't feel up to doing anything yet. Maybe others do and that's every person's choice. Actually, I've calmed down after reading some of the comments here. I'm still upset and concerned though. Just calmer, lol. I guess before I answer I'd need to know what a petition would consist of, tttt.

Melisey I am disappointed by this. Because the episode could have been so much better and had more substance. LOL the Merthur shippers seem to think it is for the lack of Gwen. And that as long as they got Merlin/Arthur. It is all swell. Story line and quality be damned. But the fact is the Arwen scenes had everything to do with Uther's death and Arthur's struggle. Whereas much of the other things that were in it didn't.

BradAngeleyes Yes, these scenes that were cut would have made the episode complete and more believable but I think the whole issue is to do with time. It is only a 45 minute episode and it's difficult to cover everything in 45 mins. If they say Gwen will have her time, I think we should look forward to that, what's done is done now, we can't really do anything about it, except feel dissatisfied. I really feel that the episodes should be at least an hour, like most other programmes so they have to cram in what they feel is appropriate and sometimes they get it wrong, like in this instance.

Melisey BradAngeleyes, I think you are right. It will be better. :) I just needed a moment to be disappointed when I heard this. Especially because the episode where Arthur lost his father could have been better. But yes I think it has everything to do with time. But then again there was so many unnecessary scenes for the plot. That is probably the problem with Merlin. They have problems with prioritizing. I watch TVD and the are always consistent to the plot. At least that is what I think. Then the plots seem so much more intelligent. But I am sure we have better stories to come. It will be better. :)

LadyKnighton this is so upsetting!! What were they thinking?! it's Arwen's turn now not later!! These scenes would've been perfect <3 I'm so upset :(

RosalynCabenson I'm pissed now. sorry, but tis episode cold have been sooooo much better... why did they cut "Gwen wishing him happy birthday?" did anyone congratulate Arthur? what did the writers take or drink? And I used to like Overman...

HumbleQueen Rose, It's not Overman. He wrote them into the script. We thought it was the writers, but what Overman wrote was edited out. Just want to be clear.

RosalynCabenson Oh I see, yeah, makes sense, wasn't thinking haha thanks^^

Nasty_Nat Now I'm really pissed and livid that they left out those key elements. If they actually let them in, the episode would have made more sense. Like Kim said in previous forum, each season had their own weakness and this one was certainky obe of themk. Could you all imagine how that episode would've have been. I would gave been amazing. Oh Stacey, you know I'm with all the way. I'm in for the petition.

HumbleQueen When I first saw this at LiveJournal today I had no idea it would have the impact it has among Arwen fans. My first reaction was to be hurt, worried, and confused. To be perfectly honest, It's been a long day for me as an Arwen fan and I'm weary of the whole thing. It seems to me there is always one thing or another to be upset about. But anyway, what can I say? Like someone else said the other day, I've needed to remind myself that this is a tv show so I want to keep a check on the emotions. Still, I've given lots of thought to it today and I'm glad to have gotten to read each of the deleted scripts. Here's how I feel about it now, for what it's worth: 1. I'm happy that Howard Overman is not the culprit everyone was thinking . He has the proper view of Arwen and the importance of this couple to the show. So it's good we all got to see that. 2. I understand perfectly that this show is about Merlin and more specifically about Merlin and Arthur. I know that is the core relationship. However, and that's a big HOWEVER, they have introduced a romantic relationship into Arthur's life. They have made it clear that the woman he loves is the most important person in his life. It seems clear that while they have introduced this into the story, they frustrate the fans of this couple, because so often they don't follow through with this relationship in a realistic way. They DEFINITELY have difficulty allowing Arthur's deep relationship with Guinevere to run concurrently with his growing friendship with Merlin in the same episode. These two relationships are not mutually exclusive; they are mutually inclusive, but I think it's difficult for them to accomplish this for some reason. 3. I'm sure most of them are doing their best, and I don't want to pick them apart because as several of you have said, I believe it's difficult fitting everything into an episode of less than forty five minutes. I think they're jamming a lot into the season, and this episode which should have been a two-parter was squeezed into one. Since it was a Merlin and Arthur focus, the relationship of Arwen suffered and the death of Uther, a principal character, also suffered. I feel like the Monday morning quarterbacks who critique all that the coaches did wrong in the game the day before, but that is how I'm seeing it. 4. I'm still hopeful about the future. I've seen too many spoilers to feel all is lost. Also, that tweet by Dale M. looms large in my mind. I'd rather get over road blocks early on and finish strong. I want to put this episode behind and chalk it up to one of those things we'll have to forgive about this show or else stop watching. I was kind of wondering today as to how Bradley and Angel would feel about some of what's been going on today among their fans. Just a thought. 5. If the eradication had not been so complete, I think the fans would not have reacted quite so violently. I hope it never happens to this extent again. I hope it won't be repeated. I think not. All done with it. As BA eyes said, what's done is done and we can't do anything about it except feel dissatisfied. Thanks for your words, Lorna, and the calming effect it had on some of us. So let's see what's next. :)

vegalily HQ and BA eyes, well said. I'm catching up with everything everyone's been posting about this. While I'm disappointed by the cuts, I really do believe it's more or less just another example of how tptb choose to deal with the characters and relationships on this show. So I won't let it affect my hope for the rest of the season based on what we know. We've still got plenty of episodes left. I read that some fans have tweeted the director and producer to ask about the cuts/if all the scenes were filmed, so maybe we'll get some answers. But, yes, I'm ready to let it go for now and see what happens.

jacomo I'm completely confused, What is Arthur and Gwens relationship? At the end of season 3 they were in love, season 4 and they have had NO moments at all!!! Episode 3 was let down by the lack of Arwen scenes. Surely if the loove of your life is having a hard time, you are there offering support, where was Gwen!!! The writers have to sort this out, either Arwen is going to be featured or it is going to become a boys own adventure.

lv2rt I'm so sorry to be so late. I've been unavailable for the last four days. Anyway, I have to say here that this is not about time. It can't be. There are too many cut scenes that would have been, what 2 or 3 seconds, in fact they wouldn't have been any extra time at all. With direction several of these scenes would have just been a part of the original scene without any additional time. In addition, none of these episodes have been exactly 45 mins long. But there's my biggest point. Why in the world was it necessary to have all the minutes they included for the fight between the Gleeman (I believe) and Uther fighting. It wasn't necessary to have that must fighting. As for Gwen going home, when does Gwen go home unless it's written that she needs to be home for something. I know that's seems simplitic but it's true. Gwen just happened to be at home when Arthur walked by and gave the money back to the commoner when the troll wife had the people give more taxes, right? And that was in the middle of the day. In 3X10 Gwen has to ask for time off which left me thinking doesn't she have a day off when she wouldn't have to ask Morgana to be off? Gwen is always written to be in the right place when they want her there. But in this case it's makes sense that she would have been there at least until Uther had gone to bed. In fact there was a scene were Morgana has already went to bed had a nightmare and Gwen ran in to wake her from during her nightmare. But here she wasn't even written into that scene that wouldn't have taken ANY time. But I'm going to stop here. Stacy, you mentioned petition. I would write. I've been through something like this before in the US. We don't trust them here, what we had to do was write snail mail, call and leave messages and tweets. Petitions are a one time thing. We wrote two and three letters a day. I for one wrote a letter everyday for just about 6 months. I also called every other day. That you can do over and over again and what happened was that the producers got over five thousand letters a day for almost a year, not to mention the calls and tweets. It was enough to completely change the show. In fact, we actually saved the job of one of the actors after he was written out of the show. Now I've seen where actors request that fans write the show to save what the actors want to see happen. I know if we get vocal they will listen but I want to say this. All the shows for this season is not in the can. They are still editing and changing the show through edits. If what is stated in the post that these scenes were cut its possible that even shot scenes will we cut in future episodes. Two weeks ago I did some research and got the addresses of the producers and BBC. If you all wish to do something about this I have the information.

EPaws I wish to do something about it. Let us talk next week, Linda.

HumbleQueen You did that? I had no idea. You are officially put in charge, Linda. Tell us what you want us to do. I have only one piece of advice. That we keep cool heads in whatever we decide to do. I'll pm you tomorrow. Going to bed now. Two weeks ago I might have poo-pooed what you're saying. But after the last two episodes, I'm with you.

lv2rt Stacy, you got it. Nanna, I completely understand. But unfortunately, I've see it all before, several times in fact.